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[Guest]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1787526' date='Feb 21 2009, 09:11 PM']Delivery Boy -- your aims of "evangelization" are noble, but running into the conversation flailing like that is only turning Bonkers off. Anyways, I'm not happy about the atheist bus ads... but I guess it gets people thinking about God...[/quote]

Dude bonkers is already turned way off. I've shard pm's.
He needs the hardcore truth that if he doesnt choose God he chooses hell.
If he is a hardore athiest and the antichrist comes he will be decieved just like that.
Mabey he'll remember our convo and remember all the signs and wonders of the antichrist are satanic.
6th trump is the antichrist.
7the trump is Jesus Christ.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Guest

[bonkers]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1786417' date='Feb 20 2009, 01:23 PM']When people say it's lack of evidence, they really mean they don't accept the evidence that is available. If there were no evidence at all of God, then we wouldn't be discussing God at all.[/quote]

What they really mean is the evidence that is accepted as fact by christians is insufficient and weak for the atheist. I accept there are some good arguments for the existence of god, but I think there are better, more convincing arguments for the non-existence of god.

[bonkers]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1787957' date='Feb 22 2009, 02:35 AM']Dude bonkers is already turned way off. I've shard pm's.
He needs the hardcore truth that if he doesnt choose God he chooses hell.
If he is a hardore athiest and the antichrist comes he will be decieved just like that.
Mabey he'll remember our convo and remember all the signs and wonders of the antichrist are satanic.
6th trump is the antichrist.
7the trump is Jesus Christ.[/quote]

You seem obsessed with end times, which is odd because most of the christians I've known who were obsessed with end times were fundies. Firing "hardcore truth" at me wont work because your arguments lack reason.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1788117' date='Feb 22 2009, 08:59 AM']What they really mean is the evidence that is accepted as fact by christians is insufficient and weak for the atheist. I accept there are some good arguments for the existence of god, but I think there are better, more convincing arguments for the non-existence of god.[/quote]
I wonder if you can list some of these convincing 'rational' arguments for us?
I think that it's pretty clear that you don't have hard proof, so we'd find ourselves on more or less equal footing to begin.

[Guest]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1788118' date='Feb 22 2009, 11:02 AM']You seem obsessed with end times, which is odd because most of the christians I've known who were obsessed with end times were fundies. Firing "hardcore truth" at me wont work because your arguments lack reason.[/quote]

you seem like a spammer multiaccounter who hangs out on a catholic board.
end times are real and i could careless if you believe in them or not.
if you want to go to hell go to hell.
have a nice trip.

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1788118' date='Feb 22 2009, 10:02 AM']You seem obsessed with end times, which is odd because most of the christians I've known who were obsessed with end times were fundies. Firing "hardcore truth" at me wont work because your arguments lack reason.[/quote]

Interesting.

Not accurate, but interesting.

[bonkers]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1788377' date='Feb 22 2009, 04:28 PM']I wonder if you can list some of these convincing 'rational' arguments for us?
I think that it's pretty clear that you don't have hard proof, so we'd find ourselves on more or less equal footing to begin.[/quote]

I know you don't find them convincing, in the same way I don't find yours convincing, so there really is no point bouncing arguments back and forth. I don't think we're on an equal footing. Either god exists, and I'm wrong, or god does not exist, and your beliefs are worthless. It's black and white, and one of us is a total sucker.

[bonkers]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1788449' date='Feb 22 2009, 05:32 PM']Interesting.

Not accurate, but interesting.[/quote]

[Guest]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1789196' date='Feb 23 2009, 04:15 AM']I know you don't find them convincing, in the same way I don't find yours convincing, so there really is no point bouncing arguments back and forth. I don't think we're on an equal footing. Either god exists, and I'm wrong, or god does not exist, and your beliefs are worthless. It's black and white, and one of us is a total sucker.[/quote]

if you're wrong you end up in hell though.
why would you want to go to hell for eternity ?

[bonkers]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1788441' date='Feb 22 2009, 05:20 PM']you seem like a spammer multiaccounter who hangs out on a catholic board.
end times are real and i could careless if you believe in them or not.
if you want to go to hell go to hell.
have a nice trip.[/quote]

Well naturally hell sounds like a terrible place and I'd want to do my utmost to avoid it. The problem is I don't believe in hell. I think hell was invented to control people and make them fearful of imaginary higher powers. I think global warming or a comet will get earth before end times does.

[bonkers]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1789199' date='Feb 23 2009, 04:21 AM']if you're wrong you end up in hell though.
why would you want to go to hell for eternity ?[/quote]

It's strange that you think I would want to go to hell for all eternity. It really does sound like a terrible place. Eternal torture.. geez, when you think about like that maybe I should become a Muslim.

[Guest]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1788118' date='Feb 22 2009, 11:02 AM']You seem obsessed with end times, which is odd because most of the christians I've known who were obsessed with end times were fundies. Firing "hardcore truth" at me wont work because your arguments lack reason.[/quote]


Just another example of how God is real to me and works in my life.
I was watching a show on ewtn tonight and they were talking about how we view the end times different then "fundies". So I have been influnced by them (fundies) and my take on the end days are probally flawed. So God showed me I am wrong and worked through you to show me that even though you dont believe in God yet you are baptised and so forth.

More then anything though the catholic church does believe and teach in a antichrist. I read tonight that the church teaches it will be a human and probally of jewish decent. Mabey i'm way off with the ufo thing. I probally am that was just an example.

But still as I knew before and lerned tonight the mark of the beast is in the mind. If you dont have faith in Jesus Christ and His Church it's not because you choose not to on your own. It's because you are being influenced by satan and evil spriits. You say you were catholic before and used to take the eucharist and you had faith and what not. Well if you lost that it isn't because God isn't real and it's all just b.s. It's much deeper then that and it's a result of satan and probally your own pride.

Anyhow Sacred Music was right and my approach lacked a calm demeaner and a sence of rationality to it. But I am confident when I say if you take the mark of the beast on your forehead (in your mind) you will go to hell for eternity. I dont know why you would want to do that.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Guest

[bonkers]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1789207' date='Feb 23 2009, 03:47 AM']But still as I knew before and lerned tonight the mark of the beast is in the mind. If you dont have faith in Jesus Christ and His Church it's not because you choose not to on your own. It's because you are being influenced by satan and evil spriits. You say you were catholic before and used to take the eucharist and you had faith and what not. Well if you lost that it isn't because God isn't real and it's all just b.s. It's much deeper then that and it's a result of satan and probally your own pride.[/quote]

Really? How do you know this? Do you really know me that well? I would posture that you have no idea why I left Catholicism and became an atheist. Pride? I honestly think it took humility to cause me the leave the church. A proud person wouldn't be able to admit he could be wrong.

[Guest]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1789211' date='Feb 23 2009, 05:06 AM']Really? How do you know this? Do you really know me that well? I would posture that you have no idea why I left Catholicism and became an atheist. Pride? I honestly think it took humility to cause me the leave the church. A proud person wouldn't be able to admit he could be wrong.[/quote]

We are debating so dont take this as me being self righteous or anything like that.

Ok with that said,


If you once had faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and even recieved the eucharist with faith and felt the results (like you told me you did) but then now are at a place where you have no faith in Christ and have left the church, I would say yes this is a reasult of satan and evil spirits.

It is satans sole job to rob us of our faith in Christ and His Church. The devil wants nothing more then for us to believe that he is not real and that the Bible is made up. Satan also doesn't mind one believing that there may be a God. Heck satan is the God of this world and he will reveal himself to the world when he comes as antichrist. The antichrist comes in peace and in Gods name. So again no faith in Christ or a openness in ones mind that God may be real is fine with satan.

Now the reason I said pride may be a result of you having no faith and leaving the church is becasue satan loves to work through pride. If satan can convince you that Christ and his Church is nothing but a man made religion then he is surely wining in your life through pride. We have a church that goes back 2000 years and a Lord who was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead. If you once had faith to believe that and dont have it no more it probally is a result of satan stealing it from you through your own pride.

Another way satan could pull you away from faith in Christ and His Church is through all sorts of different sins. Sins that the church teach are mortal that you may feel are not mortal. I know I have felt before that the rules and teachings are to overbearing. Although I have never lost my faith in the last 7 years I have not been a practicing catholic. I have been quite possibly lukewarm and that is horrible. God will spew out the lukewarm. So pray for me.

My point is if you are really open to God and you once had faith and lost it, it's not because God isnt real. It's because somehow satan found a way into your life and stole your faith from you. I'd say go to confession and confess stuff you dont even think you need to confess. See if God moves in your life. I go back to what I said ealier about how God is real and can show himself to you. He has me and you dont know me so you dont know if my claims are true but I do. And that is besides the point anyways.

The point is this. God is real and loves each and every one of us. We cannot have a friendship with God though without Jesus Christ. And if He did really die on the cross for our sin and you just deny that your whole life then why wouldnt Jesus deny you when judgement comes around ?

Edited February 23, 2009 by Guest

[bonkers]

I think my reasons for leaving the church were too complex to merit just blaming the devil. I of course considered that perhaps I was being deceived, but I think in the end leaving was just the result of me being honest with myself. I think many people doubt their beliefs but they are afraid to leave because they are afraid of being wrong and going to hell. Living in fear of eternal punishment is a terrible way to live.

I really don't believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins or that god loves me. You can reiterate this all you want I will never believe it. I think all religion is a sham and I pity those who devote their lives to worshipping a figment of their minds. But each to their own I say.