Removing Parental Rights To Teach Their Own Children

[Zoecool13]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1792215' date='Feb 26 2009, 11:06 PM']The phrase "the devil is in the details" means there is stuff in there in the fine print that is very very bad. If you read the entire document it says that the government NOT the parents has the final say of how you raise your children. Again - go read the document.[/quote]


What do you call DCFS? If they determine the parent isn't raising the child correctly, they can have the child removed.

Personally, as much as I don't like government control, I'd rather a kid that is being abused be taken away from our government, then have no option at all.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Zoecool13' post='1792236' date='Feb 26 2009, 11:48 PM']What do you call DCFS? If they determine the parent isn't raising the child correctly, they can have the child removed.

Personally, as much as I don't like government control, I'd rather a kid that is being abused be taken away from our government, then have no option at all.[/quote]
As much as you don't like government control, you'll just keep giving it more.

[Zoecool13]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1792248' date='Feb 27 2009, 12:03 AM']As much as you don't like government control, you'll just keep giving it more. [/quote]


If it protects children, or helps those less fortunate, yea, i would.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Zoecool13' post='1792236' date='Feb 27 2009, 12:48 AM']What do you call DCFS? If they determine the parent isn't raising the child correctly, they can have the child removed.

Personally, as much as I don't like government control, I'd rather a kid that is being abused be taken away from our government, then have no option at all.[/quote]
No this is far worse and removes the locus of control from the parent to the state as the default.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Zoecool13' post='1792108' date='Feb 26 2009, 07:07 PM']Are you implying that John Paul II would approve satanic messages?[/quote]
I doubt that Cmom was implying that, but let us remember that Pope John Paul II was not perfect, nor was he infallible in his judgments about U.N. laws and treaties.

[Madame Vengier]

Under Obama's socialist government, the state very well can end up taking away the parental right to control the education of children. American schools already control sex education. I sat through "here's how to use a condom" when I was in public school in North Carolina in the 80s and since I was not raised in a Catholic home, my parents were clueless about it. We were even asked questions such as "Raise your hand if you know what an orgasm is". I am not kidding. At 11 or 12 years old no one should know what an orgasm is unless their parents choose to explain it to them. It should not be taught by a public-school sex-ed teacher. But does the state question whether this is a parents' duty? No. All communist and socialist nations have state-controlled education, and America won't be any different. For a few decades now there has been an underhanded attempt for a nationalized educational system. This isn't really new, but can become a reality. Some even want a GLOBAL curriculum. *shudders*

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1791827' date='Feb 26 2009, 10:29 AM']Humiliated to be standing with Somalia?
Somalia doesn't really stand with anything or anyone, you know, not having a functioning government of anything.[/quote]


They don't have a functioning government or anything because radical Islamists have destroyed the country and are responsible for keeping the citizens impoverished, starving, uneducated and in a constant state of war.

[Zoecool13]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1792262' date='Feb 27 2009, 12:23 AM']No this is far worse and removes the locus of control from the parent to the state as the default.[/quote]

DCFS is the default, and is the state.

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1792272' date='Feb 27 2009, 12:44 AM']I doubt that Cmom was implying that, but let us remember that Pope John Paul II was not perfect, nor was he infallible in his judgments about U.N. laws and treaties.[/quote]

Not saying he was perfect nor infallible on his judgement here. Just making the statement that if you're going to say the devil is in this, you have to then say John Paul accepted the devil. Either way, no offense to anyone here on PM, but I'll take John Paul's words over anyone else's words any day of the week.

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1792330' date='Feb 27 2009, 07:26 AM']Under Obama's socialist government, the state very well can end up taking away the parental right to control the education of children. American schools already control sex education. I sat through "here's how to use a condom" when I was in public school in North Carolina in the 80s and since I was not raised in a Catholic home, my parents were clueless about it. We were even asked questions such as "Raise your hand if you know what an orgasm is". I am not kidding. At 11 or 12 years old no one should know what an orgasm is unless their parents choose to explain it to them. It should not be taught by a public-school sex-ed teacher. But does the state question whether this is a parents' duty? No. All communist and socialist nations have state-controlled education, and America won't be any different. For a few decades now there has been an underhanded attempt for a nationalized educational system. This isn't really new, but can become a reality. Some even want a GLOBAL curriculum. *shudders*[/quote]

Sex education is not controlled by the state. Any "engaged" parent knows when and what kind of sex education is being taught and given the option of removing the child from that program. Either way, the 80s were run by the last savior of government... you know that guy that gets referenced whenever a Republican speaks... Reagan.

I also wouldn't put too much emphasis on not be raised Catholic so your parents didn't know better. Most simply don't know better, or don't want their kids to know better. It's the schools that teach our kids how to read, write, tie their shoes, and everything else out there, so why would we not expect them to teach about the body and sex?

And what's wrong with a nationalized educational system? Kids should not be punished for their parents living in inpoverished areas. If you truly want to end abortion, and murder, and crimes, education is the way to go about it. Look at the test scores of some of those other nations... Americans are dumb and stupid to most of the world. maybe the answer is a national system, maybe not. One thing for sure though is that something needs to happen, because right now the youth are receiving a great disservice, that is going to hurt us all in the long run.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Zoecool13' post='1792361' date='Feb 27 2009, 07:30 AM']Not saying he was perfect nor infallible on his judgement here. Just making the statement that if you're going to say the devil is in this, you have to then say John Paul accepted the devil.[/quote]
The saying "the devil is in the details" is simply a proverbial saying. If you were one of my high school students I would give you a low grade for not recognizing the phrase, and then for misapplying its intent.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Zoecool13' post='1792361' date='Feb 27 2009, 07:30 AM']Either way, no offense to anyone here on PM, but I'll take John Paul's words over anyone else's words any day of the week.[/quote]
Since the pope has no special competence in matter of international law, your choice to blindly follow his position is irrational.

The office of the papacy does not supplant the use of reason by individual Catholics.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Zoecool13' post='1792361' date='Feb 27 2009, 10:30 AM']I also wouldn't put too much emphasis on not be raised Catholic so your parents didn't know better. Most simply don't know better, or don't want their kids to know better. It's the schools that teach our kids how to read, write, tie their shoes, and everything else out there, so why would we not expect them to teach about the body and sex?[/quote]

Because it is not the duty of the state and education system. There are some things the public school system cannot teach without overstepping the rights of parents. Being taught about sex, how to put on a condemn is different then being taught "how to tie your shoe and write."

Edited February 27, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[Didacus]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1791806' date='Feb 26 2009, 09:22 AM']Yeah, that woman is nuts. Let's just have a bunch of kids who can run wild and no one can do anything to shape them.

Stop the world, I wanna get off. [/quote]

Actually, there are several good things in that legislation. I agree, the language should be retified, but it may count as a good first draft.

For instance, this is the legislation which outlaws children soldiers and hild workers aged 14 (need reference, need to confirm) and under (and this remains a major problem in many parts of the world).

[Winchester]

Does this mean we can get rid of oppresive child labor laws?
[img]http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q259/thepinkwerewolf/zoolander-mugatu-crazy-pills.jpg[/img]

[TradMom]

+Praised be Jesus Christ!

I hope this means our poor children can stop being forced to go to Mass on the days when they are tired and want to hang around the house, watching television and playing on the computer!

She is insane as well as being completely pro-abortion in every sense of the word.

Prayers going out....to all who might encounter some of her thoughts and ideas put into action!

Pax!

(Edited to put a face in!)

Edited February 27, 2009 by TradMom

[Jesus_lol]

a little forced early sex education wouldnt be a bad thing. remember that 13 year old father in the UK? he didnt know what they were doing, or any of the consequences related to it. and now his baby face is the proud father with his promiscuos older girlfriend.