Some Communities Not Receiving Visitation With Open Arms...

[TeresaBenedicta]

[url="http://ncronline.org/news/women/we-have-given-birth-new-form-religious-life"]http://ncronline.org/news/women/we-have-gi...-religious-life[/url]

[DameAgnes]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1796066' date='Mar 3 2009, 03:19 AM'][url="http://ncronline.org/news/women/we-have-given-birth-new-form-religious-life"]http://ncronline.org/news/women/we-have-gi...-religious-life[/url]

[/quote]

She seems very defensive, doesn't she?

[puellapaschalis]

The comments are interesting.

[Hilde]

Yes, they're mostly glowing praise.

[puellapaschalis]

Here's [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/03/us-women-progressivist-religious-defy-vatican-visitation/"]Fr. Z's take on it[/url].

I think it's important to bear in mind that Sr.'s piece was never written for public reading - it was, as I understand, a message to some email contacts.

I don't think this "excuses" (if that's the right word, hence the quotation marks) some of the things written, which seem objectionable to me. Not so much what exactly she says but more of the tone behind it all. But tone is notoriously difficult to read on the internet, and was probably better interpreted by the original recipients of the message, if they all knew Sr. well.

Above all, I'm trying to remind myself that despite the piece and its tone, I'm not in the USA, nor am I familiar with American Catholic culture, and most of all that Sr. has several years' experience with religious life on me!

[osapientia]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1796114' date='Mar 3 2009, 08:41 AM']Here's [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/03/us-women-progressivist-religious-defy-vatican-visitation/"]Fr. Z's take on it[/url].

I think it's important to bear in mind that Sr.'s piece was never written for public reading - it was, as I understand, a message to some email contacts.

I don't think this "excuses" (if that's the right word, hence the quotation marks) some of the things written, which seem objectionable to me. Not so much what exactly she says but more of the tone behind it all. But tone is notoriously difficult to read on the internet, and was probably better interpreted by the original recipients of the message, if they all knew Sr. well.

Above all, I'm trying to remind myself that despite the piece and its tone, I'm not in the USA, nor am I familiar with American Catholic culture, and most of all that Sr. has several years' experience with religious life on me![/quote]

Thanks for this, Puella. I read the article, and Welllll I didn't like some of it...no surprise to anyone I'm sure. I don't want to "jump the gun" or be defensive either, there is so much bickering between religious in the US I don't think it serves any positive purpose to "jump back" if you will. Yes I think Sr was being a little defensive and yes (IMHO) offensive in her "tone".....but two things come to mind here, and you've already mentioned them both, still I'd like to add just a little of my own hope/opinion.

1. Most times it is foolish to ascribe a "tone" to a written piece like this. I've seen this practice cause a great deal of unnecessary suffering and misunderstanding.
2. Sr has more years experience in religious life right now than I will most likely ever have....and she's persevered in spite of some very turbulent times.
2A. I'm sure this sister has worked many long, hard hours to serve God's people. And while her approach may need correction and her attitude a little adjustment Jesus sees her heart the same way He sees all hearts - through the eyes of His mercy.
2B. How some communities of religious women in the US "got the way they are" has a long and complex history, born of a great deal of suffering. Perhaps sister is defensive because she actually feels threatened. Perhaps she came upon that feeling honestly and with good reason. I don't know...in fact probably only very few people know her "whole story".

I just hope that we and those conducting the visitation will refrain from judgement that is harsh or without mercy. I hope that Sister will do the same when she welcomes the visitation to her community. I hope that God's grace will abound in all of us and that we will treat each other with great care. I hope that our bond and committment to each other in the context of the Roman Catholic Church, Her teachings and legitimate authority will prevail and lead us all to peace, with God, the Church, with ourselves and each other.

Pax

*edited for typo

Edited March 3, 2009 by osapientia

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1796066' date='Mar 3 2009, 02:19 AM'][url="http://ncronline.org/news/women/we-have-given-birth-new-form-religious-life"]http://ncronline.org/news/women/we-have-gi...-religious-life[/url]

[/quote]

She sounds frightened and threatened, in my opinion. I detest what she says about how the Vatican is creating this as a war on religious. That is not what it is meant to be at all. In my opinion, this Apostolic Visitation will do much good to bring the liberalists out in to the light and recreate orthodox Catholics. I am very happy about the Visitation. It seems that she and her order have something to hide if she is very concerned about this.


I pray to God that instead of creating a "war" of some sorts, this Visitation will bring religious orders back to the Church if any of them have strayed. Too many orders are focusing more on social justice and "green peace" rather than what the Church intended them for, which is focusing on the people and Christian service.

Edited March 3, 2009 by InHisLove726

[InHisLove726]

edited for: double post

Edited March 3, 2009 by InHisLove726

[DameAgnes]

The thing was not originally written for publication, but Sister did permit it to be published, so I gather she's happy enough with it and so it may be judged as presented.

All I can say is, "by their fruits you shall know them."

[kavalamyself]

Some of what she said is true though we don't want to admit it; there is a new form
of religious life out there. Do you think they are going to ask all the sisters to put their habits back on?

[cmotherofpirl]

Sisters response is very typical of many religious in the church today, defensive and angry that the Vatican DARE visit them. The idea that anyone would question their vision is appalling and intrusive to them. I doubt if many faithful orders will have this reaction.

[Mari Therese]

It will be interesting to see what conclusions will be drawn from the study.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='kavalamyself' post='1796289' date='Mar 3 2009, 01:16 PM']Some of what she said is true though we don't want to admit it; there is a new form
of religious life out there. Do you think they are going to ask all the sisters to put their habits back on?[/quote]

I think the Vatican is going to seriously question the idea of being sisters but not have habits. I think the liberal leaning orders are a bit scared now because they know that the Vatican knows that some religious orders have lost their focus and are scattered in their mission....

Personally, I think it is kinda hypocritical to be a sister yet live a life that is essentially a near replicate of a single women working a 9-5 job. I dunno. I guess I have a lot more respect for the orders with habits as they seem to stand more for their ideals. The same applies to priests....I think it is really neat when you see priests wearing the collar wherever they go and to see priests wear normal clothes a lot is losing their focus I think.

This is just my opinion though.

----------------
Listening to: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/red+hot+chili+peppers/track/dani+california"]Red Hot Chili Peppers - Dani California[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]

[MithLuin]

The habit question, like everything, can be nuanced.

For instance, I think it is much 'easier' to wear the habit in Rome than in the US. So, I don't consider everyone who wears the habit in Rome to necessarily be more faithful to the original charism of their order or 'better religious' than people in the US who don't.

There are certainly orders who have selected habits to mimic typical clothing of the people at the time the order was founded. While I am not suggesting that anything goes, it would be possible to stay true to the intention of the founder without wearing much of a recognizable habit - for instance, sisters who wear a white blouse, black skirt and short veil are certainly recognizable as wearing something to mark themselves as sisters, but they could buy those clothes at a regular store, if they wanted to.

The Missionaries of Charity, for instance, have a habit that certainly stands out in most Western cultures, but was designed to look a bit more 'typical' in India. Certainly a habit - they all wear the same one. But if a MoC walked down a street where all the other women were wearing saris, maybe she wouldn't stand out so much.



It's fairly obvious that many (not all) religious orders in the Western world are in crisis. What to do about that crisis is not obvious to everyone. Some people have reason to be on the defensive - the thought that a stranger is going to come in and tell them how to do things and what has to change? That's...disconcerting and scary. I don't think that's what is going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is how it is seen. I haven't yet read Sr's remarks, so I can't comment on her reaction. I certainly respect the Vatican for gathering information before making pronouncements...but that's me, and it's not my lifestyle that's going under the microscope.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1796548' date='Mar 3 2009, 05:35 PM']I think the Vatican is going to seriously question the idea of being sisters but not have habits. I think the liberal leaning orders are a bit scared now because they know that the Vatican knows that some religious orders have lost their focus and are scattered in their mission....

Personally, I think it is kinda hypocritical to be a sister yet live a life that is essentially a near replicate of a single women working a 9-5 job. I dunno. I guess I have a lot more respect for the orders with habits as they seem to stand more for their ideals. The same applies to priests....I think it is really neat when you see priests wearing the collar wherever they go and to see priests wear normal clothes a lot is losing their focus I think.

This is just my opinion though.[/quote]

I suppose I don't understand their vision of this "renewed" religious life. Why not simply consecrated single life? It would seem to match better with their vision of what they want to do with religious life. I mean... if they want to get rid of habits, community life, common prayer, and obedience to a superior... It seems like they've gotten rid of religious life altogether. Why not simply be a group of consecrated singles?