VoTeckam Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [post="0"]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5923927.ece[/post] Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 I am obviously completely against the use of condoms for the purposes we use them in America, but my heart aches for people who are faced with not consumating their marraige with their spouse or dying from HIV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Sorry about the first link.. here is the GOOD one. [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5923927.ece"]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/f...icle5923927.ece[/url] Edited March 17, 2009 by VoTeckam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Condoms do not prevent STDs. It even says so on their warning labels. Can condom companies and promoters not even read their own labels?!?!? Ignorant people!! ps can a mod please fix the title of this thread lol "usein" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='StColette' post='1809719' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:06 PM']Condoms do not prevent STDs. It even says so on their warning labels. Can condom companies and promoters not even read their own labels?!?!? Ignorant people!! ps can a mod please fix the title of this thread lol "usein" ?[/quote] Condoms do not prevent some STDs. Some are transmitted by skin to skin contact but HIV is one that is transmitted through bolidy fluid. As long as the condom does not break then condoms are effective in preventing the spread of HIV. And sorry about the title... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='VoTeckam' post='1809727' date='Mar 17 2009, 11:27 AM']Condoms do not prevent some STDs. Some are transmitted by skin to skin contact but HIV is one that is transmitted through bolidy fluid. As long as the condom does not break then condoms are effective in preventing the spread of HIV. And sorry about the title...[/quote] You have no real way of knowing that a condom does not have a hole in it or that it will not break until after the fact. Putting your trust in something that could fell quite easily is like playing Russian Roulette with your life. The only truly effective way, 100% trustworthy, is no premarital sex and spousal fidelity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='StColette' post='1809735' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:39 PM']You have no real way of knowing that a condom does not have a hole in it or that it will not break until after the fact. Putting your trust in something that could fell quite easily is like playing Russian Roulette with your life. The only truly effective way, 100% trustworthy, is no premarital sex and spousal fidelity.[/quote] Pre marital abstinence and Spousal fidelity are of no use if someone is born with aids. Condoms give loving couples at least a chance to live out their vocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doe-jo Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='VoTeckam' post='1809740' date='Mar 17 2009, 09:50 AM']Pre marital abstinence and Spousal fidelity are of no use if someone is born with aids. Condoms give loving couples at least a chance to live out their vocation.[/quote] Their vocation is to have babies. Condom prevents that from happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='doe-jo' post='1809741' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:52 PM']Their vocation is to have babies. Condom prevents that from happening.[/quote] I am called to the married life but I had a meadical treatment in my youth that will prevent me from having any children. So you can have one without the other... but thats not what this thread is about... So people with AIDS should not get married? Is that the only alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='VoTeckam' post='1809740' date='Mar 17 2009, 11:50 AM']Condoms give loving couples at least a chance to live out their vocation.[/quote] Not if the person who has AIDS passes it on to their significant other. That's not very loving to give your significant other a disease that can kill them. The Church does not support using condoms for any purpose! In addition, if people had been practicing spousal fidelity and not having premarital sex we would not be faced with the issue of people being born with AIDs. Also, there are other Vocations besides marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I remember during the first stages of AIDS crisis that there were dating services for HIV+ people. Then they found out that there are different strains, and two people who were stable on different strains, ended up passing a second one to each other, and died pretty quick. Of course back then, everyone with it died. Trying to transition from crisis to chronic condition is leading to lots of issues that frankly we shouldn't be having to face. How do we explain that we aren't being mean and uncharitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1809759' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:14 PM']How do we explain that we aren't being mean and uncharitable?[/quote] When people stop being selfish and unwilling to sacrifice, I believe that's when they'll understand that we aren't being mean and uncharitable. Catherine, I'm not 100% familiar with what the Church teaches on those with HIV/AIDS marrying one another or someone with HIV/AIDS marrying someone without it. Is there anything regarding this? I mean reason is telling me one thing but sometimes reason is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='StColette' post='1809735' date='Mar 17 2009, 03:39 PM']You have no real way of knowing that a condom does not have a hole in it or that it will not break until after the fact. Putting your trust in something that could fell quite easily is like playing Russian Roulette with your life. The only truly effective way, 100% trustworthy, is no premarital sex and spousal fidelity.[/quote] I agree that it's like playing Russian Roulette. I mean, the failure rate of condoms is 2% with perfect use, 10-18% with typical use (figures gotten from Wiki), and there is always the possibility of getting a bad one that has a hole in it or breaks. [quote name='VoTeckam' post='1809740' date='Mar 17 2009, 03:50 PM']Pre marital abstinence and Spousal fidelity are of no use if someone is born with aids. Condoms give loving couples at least a chance to live out their vocation.[/quote] The vocation is to be completely self-giving, a self-sacrificing love that is open to life. How is it a self-sacrificing love for someone born HIV+ to have sex with their spouse knowing there's a chance the condom will fail? With the person's body, he or she is saying "I will place a barrier between us, not giving all of myself, and if that barrier fails I am exposing you, and possibly our child, to an ultimately fatal disease". That isn't love. The loving thing to do would be to abstain so that there is no possibility of a spouse or children contracting the disease. Yes, this is incredibly difficult and sad, but I don't see how anything else could truly be loving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1809767' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:28 PM']The loving thing to do would be to abstain so that there is no possibility of a spouse or children contracting the disease. Yes, this is incredibly difficult and sad, but I don't see how anything else could truly be loving.[/quote] I agree. I don't believe I could live with myself knowing that I directly gave my spouse or child(ren) a disease that could essential kill them. Which it could have been completely avoided had I refrained from getting married. It's a sacrifice but a very loving one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweens8403 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='VoTeckam' post='1809742' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:54 PM']I am called to the married life but I had a meadical treatment in my youth that will prevent me from having any children. So you can have one without the other... but thats not what this thread is about... So people with AIDS should not get married? Is that the only alternative?[/quote] The key difference is that whatever this medical treatment was you recieved it was (I assume) necessary to preserve your life and health however it rendered you unable to have children. Use of condoms is voluntary and the expressed purpose of them is to prevent pregnancies. When you get married for it to be a valid sacrament both the man and the woman must be open to the transmission of life from the coming together of the husband and wife. Medical conditions notwithstanding, I assume you are still willing to have children with your spouse should a conception miraculously take place. Using condoms is in direct contradiction to that. Heavy hitters correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Church sanction marriages which do not involve intercourse? Josephine marriages I believe they are called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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