Archaeology cat Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='StColette' post='1809771' date='Mar 17 2009, 04:33 PM']I agree. I don't believe I could live with myself knowing that I directly gave my spouse or child(ren) a disease that could essential kill them. Which it could have been completely avoided had I refrained from getting married. It's a sacrifice but a very loving one![/quote] Exactly. [quote name='sweens8403' post='1809773' date='Mar 17 2009, 04:36 PM']Heavy hitters correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Church sanction marriages which do not involve intercourse? Josephine marriages I believe they are called?[/quote] I think it's a Josephite marriage, but I don't know much about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='sweens8403' post='1809773' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:36 PM']Heavy hitters correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Church sanction marriages which do not involve intercourse? Josephine marriages I believe they are called?[/quote] From what I know of them they are called Josephite Marriages. It is when both parties agree together that the marriage will not be consummated. Now, this does not mean that those who are unable to consummate a marriage are allowed to have Josephite Marriages. Those who are impotent, not infertile mind you, can not validly be married in the Church, not even in a Josephite Marriage, which are considered valid by the Church. So Josephite Marriage are for those who have consented with one another not consummate the marriage but not because of impotency. I think that's correct. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) I promise I am not asking this to be argumentitive. Are the hundereds of millions are people who have aids (a huge number of which were born with the disease) supposed to live celibate lives? That is certainly the most effective solution but not one that will ever come to be. This is certainly a very complex problem, but ultimately I trust the Holy Father and the Magesterium to respond fittingly and lead us in a way that is appropriate for bringing about the fullnes of the Kingdom. PS. St Colette- The baby in your profile pic is ADORABLE. Edited March 17, 2009 by VoTeckam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='VoTeckam' post='1809806' date='Mar 17 2009, 01:19 PM']I promise I am not asking this to be argumentitive. Are the hundereds of millions are people who have aids (a huge number of which were born with the disease) supposed to live celibate lives? That is certainly the most effective solution but not one that will ever come to be.[/quote] My answer to this would be yes. I'm not 100% sure what the Church stance would be, but reason tells me that these people would make a great sacrifice and remain celibate. Even if condoms were 100% effective in keeping HIV/AIDS from being transferred, there is still the issue of the non-openness to life and the possibility that if a child was conceived then that child would more than likely have HIV/AIDs and the vicious cycle would continue. We would continue to have children born with AIDs and it would continue to spread. [quote]This is certainly a very complex problem, but ultimately I trust the Holy Father and the Magesterium to respond fittingly and lead us in a way that is appropriate for bringing about the fullnes of the Kingdom.[/quote] The Holy Father and the Magisterium continue to say that condoms cannot be used. [quote]PS. St Colette- The baby in your profile pic is ADORABLE.[/quote] Thank you lol That's my son lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthien Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I guess all I have to say is, life s'ucks most of the time, and it isn't fair. Condoms WILL NOT solve the AIDs epidemic, and they haven't helped so far. My prayers go out to those afflicted. Honestly, if either my husband or I had AIDs or contracted it by no fault of our own, we would DEFINANTLY not expose eachother because we had the "urge to merge". Excuse me for being blunt, but I feel like people put sex on this pedestal like its the only possible way someone can be fulfilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Yes I am aware of the Church's stance but the Pope has also formed a commission to revisit the issue (did so about 2 years ago). The way the addressed the issue yesterday did not see as though he was speaking to the findings of the group he formed (but he did certainly give us a hint of how the issue will be laid to rest). Ultimately, I just pray for those effected that they might be comforted and be courageous enough to live celibate lives. (and to get off topic again for a sec... St. Colette, your son is one of the cutest kids I've seen! well done lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Luthien' post='1809817' date='Mar 17 2009, 01:38 PM']I guess all I have to say is, life s'ucks most of the time, and it isn't fair. Condoms WILL NOT solve the AIDs epidemic, and they haven't helped so far.[/quote] [size=1]I think that is a very key point. The media and society in this time is pushing so hard for more condom usage. They are telling us its ok to sleep with whoever whenever as long as you use condoms to "protect yourself". People believe this and take it all literally without fully understanding that condoms are NOT adequate protection against STDs. Yes they may help slightly (and thats only for certain STDs requiring body fluid transmission), but nothing is 100% by any means. So people sleep around more and more because they have this misconception that condoms will save then, when in reality, they are making the HIV/AIDS epidemic worse and worse for everyone. Its a cycle that wont stop until they really get honest with themselves and accept God and morality. [/size] Edited March 17, 2009 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthien Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='CrossCuT' post='1809829' date='Mar 17 2009, 03:48 PM']Its a cycle that wont stop until they really get honest with themselves and accept God and morality.[/quote] Boy oh boy that'll be th' day. I hate how adulthood has made me such a cynic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [size=1] Ive been cynical all my life pretty much. [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I wonder how the WHO conclused that condom usage reduces the spread of HIV/AIDS by 90%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) [size=1]Magic? Yeah I dunno. Im no expert on ANY of this, but it seems like it would be hard to promise 90% protection from these things. Maybe under very good circumstances they could protect that well, but we have to understand how SMALLLLLL a virus is. Its a tiny tiny microsopic little thingy that could EASILY slip through rips, cracks, or whatever in a condom. There is no way to know if your condom is free of microscopic tears...and withut getting too graphic, usage of a condom I would assume can easily damage it too. So I dunno. This is all me thinking out loud... I have no evidence to back anything up. [/size] Edited March 17, 2009 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1809849' date='Mar 17 2009, 11:05 AM']I wonder how the WHO conclused that condom usage reduces the spread of HIV/AIDS by 90%?[/quote] +J.M.J.+ wishful thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='StColette' post='1809766' date='Mar 17 2009, 11:27 AM']When people stop being selfish and unwilling to sacrifice, I believe that's when they'll understand that we aren't being mean and uncharitable. Catherine, I'm not 100% familiar with what the Church teaches on those with HIV/AIDS marrying one another or someone with HIV/AIDS marrying someone without it. Is there anything regarding this? I mean reason is telling me one thing but sometimes reason is wrong.[/quote] Well, you are in one of those gray areas in Moral Theology. I thought that when Dignitas Personae came out that it might have included a section on this topic, but it didn't. The archbishop that confirmed me was moved to San Francisco right before the AIDS epidemic hit. That's about as front line as you can get in moral theology. I had the opportunity to talk to him at a conference once years later, and he talked about having to walk a tightrope between core teachings and intent. He said that some pastors treat the issue like ectopic pregnancies. With those, removing the effected part of the fallopian tube save the mother's life, but the unintended consequence is the termination of the pregnancy. He said that many pastors in his diocese viewed condoms this way when their primary purpose was to prevent the spread of the disease. I know of one couple where the wife basically went on the the triple cocktail for the duration of the marriage. It's what they do when an HIV+ woman is pregnant to prevent the spread to the baby. I know about a year or so ago a Cardinal in Africa talked about handling condoms in marriage is this exact way. It is possible that the Vatican didn't include the issue in DP simply because this is the way it is handled quietly. To publicly say that this is okay just makes people think that condoms are approved, period. It's like the not eating meat on Friday thing. Everyone remembers the part where we don't have to except during Lent, but seems to have missed the second part about substituting penance instead. So many moral issues involved in marriage are handled quietly on a case by case basis within the pastoral setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='StColette' post='1809719' date='Mar 17 2009, 08:06 AM']ps can a mod please fix the title of this thread lol "usein" ?[/quote] +J.M.J.+ fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Luthien' post='1809817' date='Mar 17 2009, 05:38 PM']Excuse me for being blunt, but I feel like people put sex on this pedestal like its the only possible way someone can be fulfilled.[/quote] I know! Or that they think people cannot possibly control their sexual urges. [quote name='CrossCuT' post='1809829' date='Mar 17 2009, 05:48 PM']So people sleep around more and more because they have this misconception that condoms will save then, when in reality, they are making the HIV/AIDS epidemic worse and worse for everyone. Its a cycle that wont stop until they really get honest with themselves and accept God and morality.[/quote] Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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