The Pope Comments On Condom Use In Africa

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1810451' date='Mar 18 2009, 03:34 AM']No, the worst that can happen is that the condom fails, and an additional person (or two, if a child is conceived and the woman isn't on the correct meds) contract AIDS. And that is what I find unacceptable. Sure, it's less of a risk than not using a condom if you have AIDS, but it still seems an unacceptable risk, one that you wouldn't subject another to if you truly loved them, IMHO.[/quote]

Amen.

[Jesus_lol]

well, at that point, it would be as if it hadnt been used at all. eh, nevermind.

thats why i believe that proper education should come with EVERY option, birthcontrol and abstinence.

if i just gave a guy a motorcycle helmet, he might think himself invincible and take even more risk. which is why i wouldnt stop there, i would make sure that they knew everything about what it can or cant do, before i let them leave.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1810454' date='Mar 18 2009, 03:41 AM']well, at that point, it would be as if it hadnt been used at all. eh, nevermind.

thats why i believe that proper education should come with EVERY option, birthcontrol and abstinence.[/quote]

Yeah, education that birth control (the pill) harms women and is not going to protect against HIV and AIDS.

I agree. Educate them about that and then educate them about self-control being the only sure-fire way you are going to not give the one you love a disease that will kill them.

[lilCook009]

[quote name='StColette' post='1809744' date='Mar 17 2009, 09:57 AM']Not if the person who has AIDS passes it on to their significant other. That's not very loving to give your significant other a disease that can kill them. The Church does not support using condoms for any purpose!

In addition, if people had been practicing spousal fidelity and not having premarital sex we would not be faced with the issue of people being born with AIDs.

Also, there are other Vocations besides marriage.[/quote]

That is not true. HIV is a retro-viral that travels through blood, and although it is not as common, many people are getting blood tainted blood transfusions. And if the mother gets a tainted transfusion the child will be 15-30% likely to get HIV as well (unless the mother takes antiretrovial pills and doesn't breast feed)

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1810454' date='Mar 18 2009, 07:41 AM']well, at that point, it would be as if it hadnt been used at all. eh, nevermind.

thats why i believe that proper education should come with EVERY option, birthcontrol and abstinence.

if i just gave a guy a motorcycle helmet, he might think himself invincible and take even more risk. which is why i wouldnt stop there, i would make sure that they knew everything about what it can or cant do, before i let them leave.[/quote]
Yes, that is part of the problem, too - proper education. I'd say that's a large part of the problem, really. I think that's the approach that's been taken in Uganda: Abstain, Be Faithful, if you don't do those, use a condom. It seems like many things there just throw condoms at the people and expect it to work.

I personally still disagree with condom use, for a variety of reasons, as I still don't see how it is a loving option to intentionally potentially expose someone to a deadly virus.

[StColette]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1810325' date='Mar 18 2009, 12:28 AM']sure they can prevent life. in this case they also can prevent death, at about the same efficiency. but if your ideas of how effective they are(i believe it is like 98%, tho some people here are doubting even 90%) are true, then they are more prolife than people practising NFP, if you also believe in how effective that is.[/quote]

NFP and Contraceptives are very different. There is nothing "Natural" about Contraceptives. You are putting something foreign either on your body or in your body to keep a pregnancy from occurring. NFP uses the woman's natural body cycle to help space children, if spacing is desired. NFP doesn't require a woman to put something foreign in her body that could potentially have some very harmful side effects not to mention that some contraceptives act as abortifacients and it doesn't require a husband to essentially tell his spouse "I love you but wait so I can put this condom on so I can keep from giving everything over to you".

[Paladin D]

Should see some of the vile idiotic responses that were posted in response to this story: [url="http://world-news.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/18/2561666-in-africa-pope-says-church-must-help-the-poor#comments"]http://world-news.newsvine.com/_news/2009/...e-poor#comments[/url]

So far it seems only one person (Perry) is defending the Vatican.

Live in a world filled with blind freakin sheep. It's like one of those movies where you have a small band of people trying to warn the larger populace of an approaching danger, and they shrug you off until the danger finally arrives. These same people believe they are 'different' and not bound by a religious institution, yet they are bound by a cultural norm that rejects any overtly religious doctrine, and trade it for one where it's a gang-banging-free-for-all of intellectual morons who think they are the minority (while in fact, they are becoming a majority).

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='VoTeckam' post='1809806' date='Mar 17 2009, 02:19 PM']I promise I am not asking this to be argumentitive. Are the hundereds of millions are people who have aids (a huge number of which were born with the disease) supposed to live celibate lives? That is certainly the most effective solution but not one that will ever come to be.

This is certainly a very complex problem, but ultimately I trust the Holy Father and the Magesterium to respond fittingly and lead us in a way that is appropriate for bringing about the fullnes of the Kingdom.

PS. St Colette- The baby in your profile pic is ADORABLE.[/quote]
People with same sex attraction and people whose spouse has divorced them can't get married either.

[Hassan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1811002' date='Mar 18 2009, 08:14 PM']People with same sex attraction and people whose spouse has divorced them can't get married either.[/quote]


For the first you just mean so long as they want to marry the same sex right? Also, for divorce I thought they never stoped being married, they cannot marry another individual?

[Hassan]

I mean like if someone were physically attracted to the same sex but could still "perform" and have kids etc could they get narried to someone of the other sex?

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1811006' date='Mar 18 2009, 09:19 PM']I mean like if someone were physically attracted to the same sex but could still "perform" and have kids etc could they get narried to someone of the other sex?[/quote]

Yes.

[Hassan]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1811008' date='Mar 18 2009, 08:22 PM']Yes.[/quote]


ok

[Hassan]

[quote name='Christie_M' post='1811078' date='Mar 18 2009, 10:28 PM']Lets just get back on topic here. If anyone has a personal problem with anyone else, keep it to Privet messages or just to yourselves.



edit: it's exhousting to read through all of the bickering.[/quote]

The Sultan agrees with earlier posters that throwing condomes at the problem will not help. He would prefer a comrehensive program which includes abstinance along with contraceptives to be honest.

[Jesus_lol]

yup, as i was saying before, there should be a comprehensive education on all the options.
obviously, complete abstinence would be ideal in stopping the spread of the disease. and while i am not saying that we should just give up on that, complete abstinence is simply never going to happen. if the human race could actually do something like that then Jesus would never have had to sacrifice himself for our sins.

throwing any one option at the AIDS crisis can only end in failure. people will always have sex. people will always have sex without condoms. people will always drive in New York. yadda yadda.
still, if 10% more people abstain, and 10% of the rest use condoms... that would certainly be a start.

i find the problem with most activism, is that people always want the big picture to drop on their plate, complete and easily. it wont happen that way, and if you expect it to, nothing will happen. better to save one for sure than to try and fail to save 3.

sorry for the animosity MV. i do feel like we are communicating on different wavelengths here, sorry for the outburst. if you could try to take it on faith when i state what i do or do not believe in, that would be muchly appreciated.

[CatherineM]

I'm wondering, how many people need to die in Africa, or what percentage of the population needs to be infected before a majority of people are scared celibate/monogamous?