The Pope Comments On Condom Use In Africa

[Jesus_lol]

i would have thought that would have happened already personally.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1811220' date='Mar 18 2009, 11:01 PM']i would have thought that would have happened already personally.[/quote]

Yeah, me too.

[StColette]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1811005' date='Mar 18 2009, 09:18 PM']For the first you just mean so long as they want to marry the same sex right? Also, for divorce I thought they never stoped being married, they cannot marry another individual?[/quote]


Yes to the first question, the Church does not support same sex marriages. As for the divorce question, if there is grounds for annulment, which there aren't in all cases, and an annulment is granted then a Catholic may remarry. For example, if one of the spouses secretly held the position that they never wanted children and never informed the other spouse then it would be grounds for annulment. An annulment can't take place if the marriage was Sacramental, so yes if the couple having had a sacramental marriage divorced they would not have grounds for an annulment and therefore would continue to remained married to one another if they divorced. That couple would not be able to remarry other people.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[url="http://pajamasmedia.com/andrewklavan/2009/03/18/score-one-for-the-pope/"]Andrew Klavan: Score One for the Pope[/url]
[quote]First of all, the Pope is a religious leader not a doctor. His job is to give spiritual not medical advice and I don’t think any “expert” anywhere can deny that “a new way of behaving towards one another,” sexually would improve people’s lives and perhaps ultimately put an end to AIDS altogether.

But more than that, it really does seem that moral approaches to AIDS prevention work better than merely physical ones—that is to say, that condoms cannot do the job, “if the soul is lacking.”

For instance, between 1991 and 2004—according to Edward C. Green writing in the Weekly Standard—Uganda reduced its HIV infection rate from 15 percent to 4 percent by means of a public information campaign called ABC. The A was for Abstinence, the B for Be Faithful and the C for condoms, only as a last resort. Green’s article goes on—shockingly—to report that international AIDS organizations actually attempted to undermine this successful program because it went against the liberal orthodoxy that condoms and testing were the best defense. [u][b]To liberals, it seems that even AIDS is better than the scourge of morality.[/b][/u]

In fact, if you carefully read the New York Times editorial attacking the Pope’s statement, you’ll find out that the Pope pretty much got it right. After first touting reports from the CDC and the Cochrane Collaboration on the effectiveness of condoms for individuals who use them “consistently and correctly,” the editors go on to confess that both groups acknowledge, “[u][b]The best way to avoid transmission of the virus is to abstain from sexual intercourse or have a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with an uninfected person.[/b][/u]”

“Condom promotion has been effective in slowing epidemics in several countries among high-risk groups, such as sex workers and their customers,” says the Times. “But less effective in slowing epidemics that have spread into the general population, as in much of sub-Saharan Africa.”

In other words, a moral approach to sex works and condoms without morality simply don’t. Or in still other words, “If the soul is lacking… the scourge cannot be resolved by distributing condoms.”

I guess this is why the Pope gets to wear the big hat.[/quote]

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
stupid, useless off-topic posts have been deleted.

posts on whether islam would be more effective in fighting AIDS have been moved to this thread:
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=91854"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=91854[/url]

[StColette]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1811573' date='Mar 19 2009, 01:21 PM']+J.M.J.+
stupid, useless off-topic posts have been deleted.

posts on whether islam would be more effective in fighting AIDS have been moved to this thread:
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=91854"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=91854[/url][/quote]

ty Red

[StColette]

[quote name='lilCook009' post='1810456' date='Mar 18 2009, 03:47 AM'][quote]StColette says :Not if the person who has AIDS passes it on to their significant other. That's not very loving to give your significant other a disease that can kill them. The Church does not support using condoms for any purpose!

In addition, if people had been practicing spousal fidelity and not having premarital sex we would not be faced with the issue of people being born with AIDs.

Also, there are other Vocations besides marriage.[/quote]

That is not true. HIV is a retro-viral that travels through blood, and although it is not as common, many people are getting blood tainted blood transfusions. And if the mother gets a tainted transfusion the child will be 15-30% likely to get HIV as well (unless the mother takes antiretrovial pills and doesn't breast feed)
[/quote]

What part is not true?

That it isn't loving to knowingly spread a deadly disease to someone you love?
That the Church does not support condom use for any purpose?
That if people practiced fidelity and did not have premarital sex then we would not be faced with such a huge outbreak?
That there are other Vocations besides marriage?

Please clarify what you mean by "That is not true". Because all of the above statements are true. It's not loving to pass on a deadly disease knowingly just in order to have sex. The Church does not support condom use. If people practiced spousal fidelity and did not have premarital sex we would not have the huge outbreak that we do today. And yes, their are other Vocations besides marriage. So I fail to see what you mean by "That's not true"

Btw the situation that we are speaking of is regarding HIV/AIDS that is being transmitted through sexual activity specifically in Africa, not through blood transfusions. The topic at hand has nothing to do with blood transfusions and the fact that HIV/AIDS can be transmitted that way. Blood transfusions have nothing to do with condom use in Africa to prevent HIV/AIDS.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Has anyone seen this article? [url="http://catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15445"]Harvard researcher says Pope is correct about condom use in Africa.[/url] My sister e-mailed it to me this afternoon.

[Christie_M]

This part in the article cought my eye

[quote]Dr. Green found that part of the elusive reason is a phenomenon known as risk compensation or behavioral disinhibition.

“[Risk compensation] is the idea that if somebody is using a certain technology to reduce risk, a phenomenon actually occurs where people are willing to take on greater risk.” The idea can be related to someone that puts on sun block and is willing to stay out in the sun longer because they have added protection. In this case, however, the greater risk is sexual. Because people are willing take on more risk, they may “disproportionally erase” the benefits of condom use, Green said.[/quote]

[Aloysius]

guess who agrees with the pope that condoms worsen the problem? you'll never guess who....


[b]Senior Harvard Aids Prevention Researcher, Dr. Edward Green[/b]
[url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15445"]http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15445[/url]

at the level of population, the distribution of condoms to an area statistically WORSENS the AIDS epidemic there. that's the hard core statistical facts. people need to deal with them, the distribution of condoms has done NOTHING to curb the spread of AIDS.

the debate about the individual morality is another matter entirely, the Pope's remarks specifically said that the distribution of condoms worsens the AIDS problem. and he's right.

edit: looks like someone beat me to the punch.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' post='1814155' date='Mar 22 2009, 02:28 PM']Has anyone seen this article? [url="http://catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15445"]Harvard researcher says Pope is correct about condom use in Africa.[/url] My sister e-mailed it to me this afternoon. [/quote]
+J.M.J.+
nice. here's the full article:
[url="http://www.aidsuganda.org/pdf/Comments_on_ABC1.pdf"]http://www.aidsuganda.org/pdf/Comments_on_ABC1.pdf[/url]

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1814805' date='Mar 23 2009, 01:27 PM']+J.M.J.+
nice. here's the full article:
[url="http://www.aidsuganda.org/pdf/Comments_on_ABC1.pdf"]http://www.aidsuganda.org/pdf/Comments_on_ABC1.pdf[/url][/quote]

I was trying to find his original article when I linked it but I wasn't able to find it. Thanks for linking it.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1814178' date='Mar 22 2009, 06:46 PM']guess who agrees with the pope that condoms worsen the problem? you'll never guess who....


[b]Senior Harvard Aids Prevention Researcher, Dr. Edward Green[/b]
[url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15445"]http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15445[/url]

at the level of population, the distribution of condoms to an area statistically WORSENS the AIDS epidemic there. that's the hard core statistical facts. people need to deal with them, the distribution of condoms has done NOTHING to curb the spread of AIDS.

the debate about the individual morality is another matter entirely, the Pope's remarks specifically said that the distribution of condoms worsens the AIDS problem. and he's right.

edit: looks like someone beat me to the punch.[/quote]


Looks pretty sound

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/african_aids_the_facts_that_demolish_the_myths/"]http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/a...lish_the_myths/[/url]