Our Guy Karzai

[BG45]

[url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/5080797/Hamid-Karzai-signs-law-legalising-rape-in-marriage.html"]So it seems our "moderate" friend in Afghanistan, President Hamid Karzai has been a busy man:[/url]

[quote]The law, which has not been publicly released, is believed to state women can only seek work, education or doctor's appointments with their husband's permission.

Only fathers and grandfathers are granted custody of children under the law, according to the United Nations Development Fund for Women.

Opponents of the legislation governing the personal lives of Afghanistan's Shia minority have said it is "worse than during the Taliban".

Mr Karzai has been accused of electioneering at the expense of women's rights by signing the law to appeal to crucial Shia swing voters in this year's presidential poll.[/quote]

More about our "moderate" supposed figurehead in the article.

[CatherineM]

There seems to be more appeasement going on in Afghanistan than anything else. I watched a documentary last night about the Taliban in the tribal areas on the border and into Pakistan. Just scary stuff. Some of the areas have been allowed to reintroduce Sharia laws just to try to appease the Taliban. They showed the schools that only boys are allowed to attend, and one 13 year old boy was talking about how much he'd like to be a suicide bomber, but he would have to get permission from his father first. He had the same look on his face as a 13 year old western boy who might be talking about having to get his dad's permission to see a PG-13 movie.

Politicians are the same all over. They promise whatever they think will get them elected.

[eagle_eye222001]

Always in trouble when you start appeasing people to the extend Karzai did to the Taliban.

[Nihil Obstat]

So much for me always saying that Afghanistan is doing so well... I feel betrayed.

I still have a lot of hope for them though. Afghanistan in particular.

[Madame Vengier]

Karzai has never been on our side. He's never been moderate. Bush was delusional.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1821649' date='Apr 1 2009, 02:30 AM']So much for me always saying that Afghanistan is doing so well... I feel betrayed.

I still have a lot of hope for them though. Afghanistan in particular.[/quote]

What news have you been reading to make you think that?? Karzai was never on our side. Afghanistan was never "doing so well".

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1821701' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:03 AM']What news have you been reading to make you think that?? Karzai was never on our side. Afghanistan was never "doing so well".[/quote]
Excuse me for concluding that ongoing security and reconstruction operations by our militaries was making a difference, and would continue to have an impact if it were continued responsibly.
I don't know the first thing about Karzai, and if you had asked me who the president of Afghanistan was before I read this thread, I wouldn't have been able to remember.

Don't you think that Afghanistan is "doing well" in comparison to Taliban rule?

[CatherineM]

Th[i][/i]ey ha[i][/i]d Ka[i][/i]rzi o[i][/i]n th[i][/i]e ne[i][/i]ws ton[i][/i]ight. Th[i][/i]e gu[i][/i]ys we[i][/i]re fo[i][/i]cusing o[i][/i]n thre[i][/i]e th[i][/i]ings, tha[i][/i]t husban[i][/i]ds wo[i][/i]uld n[i][/i]ow b[i][/i]e allo[i][/i]wed t[i][/i]o sexu[i][/i]ally assa[i][/i]ult th[i][/i]eir wiv[i][/i]es, an[i][/i]d th[i][/i]at fema[i][/i]les wo[i][/i]uld hav[i][/i]e t[i][/i]o hav[i][/i]e pe[i][/i]rmission t[i][/i]o le[i][/i]ave th[i][/i]e ho[i][/i]me, o[i][/i]r g[i][/i]o t[i][/i]o a doc[i][/i]tor. I'[i][/i]d s[i][/i]ay a[i][/i]t thi[i][/i]s po[i][/i]int, th[i][/i]e o[i][/i]nly differ[i][/i]ence i[i][/i]s th[i][/i]at Ka[i][/i]rzi i[i][/i]s[i][/i]n't goin[i][/i]g arou[i][/i]nd blow[i][/i]ing u[i][/i]p anc[i][/i]ient artifa[i][/i]cts. May[i][/i]be beca[i][/i]use th[i][/i]e Talib[i][/i]an alread[i][/i]y di[i][/i]d th[i][/i]at.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1822392' date='Apr 1 2009, 10:04 PM']Th[i][/i]ey ha[i][/i]d Ka[i][/i]rzi o[i][/i]n th[i][/i]e ne[i][/i]ws ton[i][/i]ight. Th[i][/i]e gu[i][/i]ys we[i][/i]re fo[i][/i]cusing o[i][/i]n thre[i][/i]e th[i][/i]ings, tha[i][/i]t husban[i][/i]ds wo[i][/i]uld n[i][/i]ow b[i][/i]e allo[i][/i]wed t[i][/i]o sexu[i][/i]ally assa[i][/i]ult th[i][/i]eir wiv[i][/i]es, an[i][/i]d th[i][/i]at fema[i][/i]les wo[i][/i]uld hav[i][/i]e t[i][/i]o hav[i][/i]e pe[i][/i]rmission t[i][/i]o le[i][/i]ave th[i][/i]e ho[i][/i]me, o[i][/i]r g[i][/i]o t[i][/i]o a doc[i][/i]tor. I'[i][/i]d s[i][/i]ay a[i][/i]t thi[i][/i]s po[i][/i]int, th[i][/i]e o[i][/i]nly differ[i][/i]ence i[i][/i]s th[i][/i]at Ka[i][/i]rzi i[i][/i]s[i][/i]n't goin[i][/i]g arou[i][/i]nd blow[i][/i]ing u[i][/i]p anc[i][/i]ient artifa[i][/i]cts. May[i][/i]be beca[i][/i]use th[i][/i]e Talib[i][/i]an alread[i][/i]y di[i][/i]d th[i][/i]at.[/quote]


This is Islam. I wonder when people are finally going to get this through their heads?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1821751' date='Apr 1 2009, 10:51 AM']Excuse me for concluding that ongoing security and reconstruction operations by our militaries was making a difference, and would continue to have an impact if it were continued responsibly.
I don't know the first thing about Karzai, and if you had asked me who the president of Afghanistan was before I read this thread, I wouldn't have been able to remember.

Don't you think that Afghanistan is "doing well" in comparison to Taliban rule?[/quote]


Afghanistan is dangerously on the brink of having the Taliban rule again and the "president" is just anothe corrupt Islamist dictator who supports oppression. The answer to your question is NO.

I do find it interesting, though, that you had your mind made up about things in Afghanistan, based on whatever information you had, but couldn't remember the name of the president. I'm just guessing you aren't as informed about Afghanistan as you thought you were.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1822568' date='Apr 2 2009, 04:00 AM']I do find it interesting, though, that you had your mind made up about things in Afghanistan, based on whatever information you had, but couldn't remember the name of the president. I'm just guessing you aren't as informed about Afghanistan as you thought you were.[/quote]
I'm not arguing against a thing you've said, you may or may not have noticed, but saying this was entirely unfair.
I certainly did not have my mind made up. I believed that the enormous amounts of money and manpower going into Afghanistan were having a difference. I assumed that having a democratic system was preferable to having Taliban rule, despite flaws that are generally to be expected in such a country. I was generally informed by a large amount of news reports that, while there was still violence, especially in Kandahar, the efforts of our militaries were both appreciated and helpful.
The fact that I couldn't remember the name Hamid Karzai off the top of my head only alludes to the fact that most news sources I've had access to talk about Canadian or American military efforts and reconstruction, and political reports are few and far between.
I'm not uninformed though; I'm frustrated that you accuse me of that.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1822612' date='Apr 2 2009, 08:59 AM']I'm not arguing against a thing you've said, you may or may not have noticed, but saying this was entirely unfair.
I certainly did not have my mind made up. I believed that the enormous amounts of money and manpower going into Afghanistan were having a difference. I assumed that having a democratic system was preferable to having Taliban rule, despite flaws that are generally to be expected in such a country. I was generally informed by a large amount of news reports that, while there was still violence, especially in Kandahar, the efforts of our militaries were both appreciated and helpful.
The fact that I couldn't remember the name Hamid Karzai off the top of my head only alludes to the fact that most news sources I've had access to talk about Canadian or American military efforts and reconstruction, and political reports are few and far between.
I'm not uninformed though; I'm frustrated that you accuse me of that.[/quote]

Don't feel bad about not knowing his name immediately. You probably think about things other than Islamic countries. Besides, the only time you see it mentioned on the news is when one of our military commanders is announcing another soldier's death.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1822689' date='Apr 2 2009, 11:42 AM']Don't feel bad about not knowing his name immediately. You probably think about things other than Islamic countries. Besides, the only time you see it mentioned on the news is when one of our military commanders is announcing another soldier's death.[/quote]
By and large that's exactly what I mean.
Although I tend to read updates on the mission too, but yes, that's what i was talking about.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1822689' date='Apr 2 2009, 01:42 PM']Don't feel bad about not knowing his name immediately. You probably think about things other than Islamic countries. Besides, the only time you see it mentioned on the news is when one of our military commanders is announcing another soldier's death.[/quote]


If someone is going to make the statement, "I thought things were okay over there", then they should know what they're talking about. It happens to be an Islamic country that we have soldiers fighting in and with which our government has a very close relationship. It's not about "thinking about other things than Islamic countries", but thanks for you input, Catherine.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1822612' date='Apr 2 2009, 10:59 AM']I'm not arguing against a thing you've said, you may or may not have noticed, but saying this was entirely unfair.
I certainly did not have my mind made up. I believed that the enormous amounts of money and manpower going into Afghanistan were having a difference. I assumed that having a democratic system was preferable to having Taliban rule, despite flaws that are generally to be expected in such a country. I was generally informed by a large amount of news reports that, while there was still violence, especially in Kandahar, the efforts of our militaries were both appreciated and helpful.
The fact that I couldn't remember the name Hamid Karzai off the top of my head only alludes to the fact that most news sources I've had access to talk about Canadian or American military efforts and reconstruction, and political reports are few and far between.
I'm not uninformed though; I'm frustrated that you accuse me of that.[/quote]


I said "not as informed as you thought you were". If you have been following the situation in Afghanistan, I can't imagine how you don't know the name Karzai. And there is NO democratic situation in Afghanistan. It is an Islamic nation. Yes, the US forces defeated the Taliban initially and incredible strides were being made, but the Taliban is back and Karzai himself has been guilty numerous times of impeding any semblance of democracy that the Americans thought they could establish there. Karzai wants the Taliban out, but not because he wants democracy. He wants them out because they threaten his own power. He is not our friend nor a friend of the Afghans.