Moral Theology

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

I don't know if this is the appropriate forum for this, or even if this topic is appropriate but I feel compelled to proceed.
As a Catholic I have always struggled with the concept of mortal sin. Its hard for me to tell if something is mortal or not. I used to see every sin as mortal which led me to stop practicing.

As of now, I am trying to inform my conscience so I can make a good confession, but also so I can conduct my life free from the troubles of my conscience.

Its hard for me to understand what is sinful in a culture that does not even recognize sin. I have some questions about what and what does not constitute a mortal sin?

- When is it a mortal sin to disobey one's parents/superiors?

-How does one tell what music, movies, tv shows, books are permissible?
- lets say I watch a tv show that is not suitable. Is this a mortal sin? How do I tell?

I'm sure I will have more at a latter date.

thanks

sam

[CatherineM]

One of my favorite priests told me once that a sin is anything that interferes with your relationships with the people in your life, or in your relationship with the Lord. When you know something will do so, and are capable of saying no to the sin, but choose not to, then that's when it becomes a serious sin. There are some things that are black letter mortal sin, such as performing an abortion. Other things can depend on the maturity and intellectual capabilities of the individual. Bottom line, when it comes to sin, go ahead an confess it. Your confessor will tell you if you are being too hard on yourself, or if you have fallen into scrupulosity. Better safe than sorry.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1824902' date='Apr 5 2009, 12:53 AM']One of my favorite priests told me once that a sin is anything that interferes with your relationships with the people in your life, or in your relationship with the Lord. When you know something will do so, and are capable of saying no to the sin, but choose not to, then that's when it becomes a serious sin. There are some things that are black letter mortal sin, such as performing an abortion. Other things can depend on the maturity and intellectual capabilities of the individual. Bottom line, when it comes to sin, go ahead an confess it. Your confessor will tell you if you are being too hard on yourself, or if you have fallen into scrupulosity. Better safe than sorry.[/quote]


I feel like Martin Luther. Things that most people don't even think twice about are mortal sins, like gossip, or certain types of music, movies, and literature. I just don't know how to figure this stuff out. I've tried before, but it only ever leads me to despair.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1824902' date='Apr 5 2009, 12:53 AM']One of my favorite priests told me once that a sin is anything that interferes with your relationships with the people in your life, or in your relationship with the Lord. When you know something will do so, and are capable of saying no to the sin, but choose not to, then that's when it becomes a serious sin. There are some things that are black letter mortal sin, such as performing an abortion. Other things can depend on the maturity and intellectual capabilities of the individual. Bottom line, when it comes to sin, go ahead an confess it. Your confessor will tell you if you are being too hard on yourself, or if you have fallen into scrupulosity. Better safe than sorry.[/quote]

also this analysis assumes that every sin constitutes grave matter....

[Fr. Bruno]

CCC 1857 :

For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is [b]grave matter [/b]and which is also committed with [b]full knowledge [/b]and [b]deliberate consent[/b]."

Grave matter : if you want to know exactly what falls under this expression, just red the CCC's part on the 10 commandments (it's worth reading anyway).

Deliberate consent : § 1859 gives a further explanation on that : a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

Full knowledge means that when making the decision to do this thing, you are fully aware that it is sinful.

Hope this will help.

God bless !

[Ziggamafu]

"Personal choice" is the one you want to focus on. Remember that a single mortal sin - that single deliberate action of the will - destroys all charity within your heart. All of it. Every last bit of charity: gone. You shouldn't need to ask yourself what is and what is not a mortal sin. Unless you are deliberately trying to fool yourself, "not knowing" implies that the sin was lacking in either full knowledge or full consent. Please remember that the early Christians were expected to go their whole lives without a single post-baptismal mortal sin (and ancient Rome offered arguably greater occasions to sin than our own society). Something's not right if you love God, yet feel like you are constantly in mortal sin.

Try to ease your conscience with the fact that perfect contrition forgives even mortal sins in anticipation of your next confession, and perfect contrition (sorrow for one's sins for the sake of God's love rather than the fear of Hell) is not an emotion or experience feeling, but rather an act of the will (an act that presupposes the grace necessary to make it, much like the choice to convert). If your scrupulosity kicks in, try saying the following prayers:

[sign of the cross]

Behold the cross of the Lord! Flee ye adversaries! The Lion of Judah, the Root of Jesse, has conquered! Alleluia!

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee, and I detest all my sins, not only because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell, but most of all because they offend thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve to confess my sins, to do my penance, and to amend my life. Amen.

[sign of the cross]

...and at your next confession, mention your struggle with the feelings of condemnation and despair. An all-powerful God of infinite love and mercy willed you into existence and died for you to be with him. It is therefore the love that you should fear, and not the wrath. Your hope in salvation should be as confident as your hope that God gets what he wants in the end; and what God wants is you.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Fr. Bruno' post='1825312' date='Apr 5 2009, 05:49 PM']CCC 1857 :

For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is [b]grave matter [/b]and which is also committed with [b]full knowledge [/b]and [b]deliberate consent[/b]."

Grave matter : if you want to know exactly what falls under this expression, just red the CCC's part on the 10 commandments (it's worth reading anyway).

Deliberate consent : § 1859 gives a further explanation on that : a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

Full knowledge means that when making the decision to do this thing, you are fully aware that it is sinful.

Hope this will help.

God bless ![/quote]


thank you for the advice. My follow up question: Is everything which violates the commandments a motal sin?

for example, the 4th commandment section does not specify when dishonering/disobeying authority is mortally sinful.
skipping work (in my opinion) is not mortally sinful, even if there is not really a good reason to do so



[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1825608' date='Apr 5 2009, 08:38 PM']"Personal choice" is the one you want to focus on. Remember that a single mortal sin - that single deliberate action of the will - destroys all charity within your heart. All of it. Every last bit of charity: gone. You shouldn't need to ask yourself what is and what is not a mortal sin. Unless you are deliberately trying to fool yourself, "not knowing" implies that the sin was lacking in either full knowledge or full consent. Please remember that the early Christians were expected to go their whole lives without a single post-baptismal mortal sin (and ancient Rome offered arguably greater occasions to sin than our own society). Something's not right if you love God, yet feel like you are constantly in mortal sin.

Try to ease your conscience with the fact that perfect contrition forgives even mortal sins in anticipation of your next confession, and perfect contrition (sorrow for one's sins for the sake of God's love rather than the fear of Hell) is not an emotion or experience feeling, but rather an act of the will (an act that presupposes the grace necessary to make it, much like the choice to convert). If your scrupulosity kicks in, try saying the following prayers:

[sign of the cross]

Behold the cross of the Lord! Flee ye adversaries! The Lion of Judah, the Root of Jesse, has conquered! Alleluia!

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee, and I detest all my sins, not only because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell, but most of all because they offend thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve to confess my sins, to do my penance, and to amend my life. Amen.

[sign of the cross]

...and at your next confession, mention your struggle with the feelings of condemnation and despair. An all-powerful God of infinite love and mercy willed you into existence and died for you to be with him. It is therefore the love that you should fear, and not the wrath. Your hope in salvation should be as confident as your hope that God gets what he wants in the end; and what God wants is you.[/quote]

Maybe there is something wrong, because I am really struggling with this.
I feel like most shows on TV and most of the music i listen to is inappropriate. I feel like i am committing a mortal sin simply by watching or listening.

Every time a friend gossips and I listen without saying anything, or actively partake, I feel the same.

every time i disobey, a teacher or a parent, even in the littlest way, I feel as if im sinning mortally.

Ultimately, this is why I stopped practicing Catholicism. I felt like I was in a constant state of sin, and I couldn't use my reason to figure out what was actually mortally sinful and what was not.
I don't know what to do.

[Ziggamafu]

An act of perfect contrition forgives mortal sin. I doubt you are in mortal sin, but that is between you and God; you need to get a good spiritual director to help you out. I do think you very well could drive yourself crazy (and possibly into apostasy) if you keep things up as they are, now.

The following prayer, if you want what it says (you don't have to [i]feel [/i]what it says, you only have to [i]want [/i]what it says), FORGIVES MORTAL SIN in anticipation of your next confession:

[i]O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee, and I detest all my sins, not only because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell, but most of all because they offend thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve to confess my sins, to do my penance, and to amend my life. Amen.[/i]

So, say that prayer when in doubt. Go to mass as often as possible. Hit up confession once a week. And stop being so afraid of Hell when you have an all-powerful God who wants you in Heaven.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

this is kind of unrelated:

apologizing to people for sinning against them.

i have heard that this is also required for absolution. is this true?

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1825659' date='Apr 5 2009, 08:01 PM']this is kind of unrelated:

apologizing to people for sinning against them.

i have heard that this is also required for absolution. is this true?[/quote]


You may start a debate with that one. Various traditional sources indicate that an apology need not be formal or explicit, any more than a person needs to return a stolen good in person. All that matters is that you attempt to amend the damage.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1825628' date='Apr 5 2009, 08:08 PM']Ultimately, this is why I stopped practicing Catholicism. I felt like I was in a constant state of sin, and I couldn't use my reason to figure out what was actually mortally sinful and what was not.
I don't know what to do.[/quote]
I will leave it others to provide technical answers, but I just wanted to say that I understand what you mean. I have similar issues with scrupulosity. I think the most important thing is to trust in God's mercy. He is not trying to trap you. Try your best to do the will of God. And pray for prudence, so that you can have a better sense of what is and is not a grave sin. Also, don't just pray for prudence, but try to develop it. Study the writings of the Saints, the Catechism, etc. If you have questions or doubts about something specific, ask the Priest in confession. Try to use his advice in the future, by applying it to specific cases when you are not sure if something is a sin.

It is easy to say that God is merciful, but it is hard to actually believe it and live according to that belief. Remember the message of Divine Mercy: "Jesus, I trust in you." You have to trust in God, trust in his mercy. Scrupulosity is not about God, it is about you and (perhaps) about your pride. True repentance is about God, about responding to his love and his mercy.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1825670' date='Apr 5 2009, 10:21 PM']You may start a debate with that one. Various traditional sources indicate that an apology need not be formal or explicit, any more than a person needs to return a stolen good in person. All that matters is that you attempt to amend the damage.[/quote]

Hey do you know where I can read about this? Is it in the Catechism?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

this is another weird question:

would i have to go and delete stuff i had written on people's facebooks that is sinful? how does this whole reperations thing work?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

to kristina: I don't know if you will see this or not haha. But I can't respond to your comment because I am phishy. do you have an email address or anything?

Edited April 7, 2009 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1824898' date='Apr 4 2009, 11:46 PM']- When is it a mortal sin to disobey one's parents/superiors?[/quote]

Again, I hope that this will help

"I. Duties of Children towards their parents. Piety requires that children show their parents:

1. Reverence, not only by internal sentiments but also by external conduct.

Sins against filiar reverence are committed against internal contempt, offensive speech, disdainful deportment, striking blows. Even a trivial but seriously meant abuse can be a grave sin. It is likewise a sin against filial reverence to be ashamed of one's parents, to disown or fail to recognize them because of their humble state, poor clothes, etc. -- It is not a sin against reverence to restrain one's parents even by physical force for some good reason and without interior contempt in case they have lost the use of their reason, e.g., because of insanity, old age or intoxication. Similarly, one may have good reason for not desiring to associate with his parents (because of some crime of theirs) provided, of course, that he looks out for their necessary support.

2. Love, in thought, word and deed.

Sins against the love due to parents are: indignation, hatred, cursing, speaking ill of them, injurious words or conduct, causing them anxiety, failure to pray for them or support them in spiritual or corporal necessity. -- If children can assist their parents in grave need by remaining in the world they may not enter the religious life. -- There is no obligation for children to pay their parents' debts after their death if the children have not inherited anything from them, even though the parents contracted these debts for the purpose of educating their children.

3. Obedience in all lawful matters which relate either to their training or to the domestic order.

Disobedience is a grievous sin if it concerns an important matter and the parents have given a real command. -- In educational matters the obligation of obedience lasts until the children come of age. Minors may not, therefore, undertake certain work or enlist against the army against the will of their parents. But in the choice of their vocation they are free. -- Even adult children, as long as they stay at home, must obey in all things necessary for domestic order, e.g., to return home at a reasonable hour at night. -- Before marrying, children should consult their parents. But even if they do not follow the sensible advice of their parents they generally commit only a venial sin." (Fr. Herbert Jone, [i]Moral Theology[/i], pp. 126 - 127)

Edited April 7, 2009 by Resurrexi