HisChildForever Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1825635' date='Apr 5 2009, 08:28 PM']She didn't make me feel foolish. I was just trying to apologize and explain how I missed her posts.[/quote] It's okay. I've done the same thing before, taking awhile to type a response and then before you know it five posts have gone by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I think tradition most certainly points to it likely being either Mark or John... if it had been Mark, I believe the story is that he was likely the son of the owner of the house where the last supper was held, heard of the commotion in the garden and ran out to get him with only a sheet to cover him. I posted this on another forum, though someone aptly pointed out to me that this isn't really Mark's style of gospel writing (typology and such), I still think it's interesting... [quote]I am inclined historically to say it was Mark himself. but symbolically, often such third person mentions are meant to signify the general reader, ie the regular Christian... and I wonder if the fleeing naked has anything to do with Adam and Eve in the original garden... I suspect it does but wonder if the thought has ever been suggested before. It could simply refer to the symbolic sinner who flees in shame at his nakedness before God (Christ)... ie, he is there following Christ even when He is arrested, but when they come after him too, that is when he is aware of his own nakedness, that his faith was only a bit of a sheet that could easily be shaken in the midst of persecution, and runs ashamed from Christ. when God comes the second time to save us (recall in the fall, God came looking for Adam and Eve who fleed Him in their shame, had they owned up and apologized there could have been forgiveness then, theoretically). Showing that though this time the fall is undone, man still remains in his fallen state, fleeing from the saving God in his nakedness. the Garden of Gethsemane is the antidote to what occurred at the Garden of Eden, and conspicuously Mark mentions someone fleeing naked? coincidence? I don't know, but I really like that interpretation...[/quote] but I can't find any mention of any similar interpretation anywhere so I'm not inclined to think it's intended by the text... I'm sure in 2000 years someone before me would've said something if it had been inherent to the text, so it's probably me just reading something into it (albeit a something which really speaks to me through the scripture). can anyone else see if they can find anything by a Church Father or any scripture commentator pointing to this type of typology at all? regardless of what real basis it may or may not have, I offer it as an insight to anyone meditating upon the text in lectio divina or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1825673' date='Apr 5 2009, 09:27 PM']if it had been Mark, I believe the story is that he was likely the son of the owner of the house where the last supper was held, heard of the commotion in the garden and ran out to get him with only a sheet to cover him.[/quote] Yes...myself and Catherine both said this. I also heard that there is some "secret Gospel" of Mark and that this passage is better explained there, which indicates that the man was Lazarus. No idea what to make of that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 sorry, it actually made sense for me to reiterate that before I edited something out since I decided not to get into the middle of the accusation that gallos's comment was trying to make someone look foolish (I was just saying that's not the way I read it, it just seemed like he didn't see where you were getting the identity of that man with Mark thing from, but I rethought posting that since I felt it might erupt into bickering and it was better to just let it go) anyway, I'm interested in what anyone thinks of my idea that the nakedness of that man in the Garden of Gethsemane is a symbol for the nakedness of us fleeing from Christ our God come to save us from the fall, the way Adam and Eve fled from God when He came to offer them a chance at forgiveness when they first fell. that it represents the sinner who tries to follow Christ, but when persecution lays hands on him, his courage falls away like a sheet and it is revealed to him that he is naked, and he flees from Christ to hide his shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Seems like a solid theory to me. Besides that, no reason there can only be one deeper meaning. There's probably a bunch we'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 My priest talked about that sort of theory in the context of Peter denying Christ three times. But I didn't think of applying it to the mysterious "naked man" in the Gospel. Interesting theory. My dad was saying earlier today that the fact he ran away in that way without the cloth he had on before was that he was so afraid and wanted to escape that he didn't care that he was naked. Sort of like there was so much upheaval that there was no time for him to think so he just didn't care he was without his cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddkapps Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 You know there is one thing that I can say I count among the few absolutes i hold in life.... and that is..."No matter how obscure my thoughts are, no matter how random or bizarre...I can ALWAYS count on someone on Phatmass to either share in or have be even more extreme in thought than myself. GO PHATMASS!!" You know as I was following along this morning - I couldn't help but think to myself... "huh?" I see I am not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='Kiddkapps' post='1825928' date='Apr 5 2009, 11:00 PM']You know there is one thing that I can say I count among the few absolutes i hold in life.... and that is..."No matter how obscure my thoughts are, no matter how random or bizarre...I can ALWAYS count on someone on Phatmass to either share in or have be even more extreme in thought than myself. GO PHATMASS!!" You know as I was following along this morning - I couldn't help but think to myself... "huh?" I see I am not the only one.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='Kiddkapps' post='1825928' date='Apr 5 2009, 11:00 PM']"No matter how obscure my thoughts are, no matter how random or bizarre...I can ALWAYS count on someone on Phatmass to either share in or have be even more extreme in thought than myself. GO PHATMASS!!"[/quote] I KNOW!!!! Phatmass is literally a Godsend for me. Even the coincidence that led me here was poignant in a way. It's nice, because I absolutely cannot this level of information and 'formation' anywhere in my outside life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Aloysius' post='1825890' date='Apr 5 2009, 11:27 PM']the way Adam and Eve fled from God when He came to offer them a chance at forgiveness when they first fell.[/quote] Sorry that this is off-topic, but where in the Bible did God offer Adam and Eve a chance of forgiveness after they ate the fruit? God was not looking for them, Genesis mentions that "when they heard the sound of the LORD God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of the day, the man and his wife hid themselves from the LORD God among the trees of the garden" (Gen 3:8) and they hid themselves, but it was because - to directly quote Adam - "I heard you in the garden; but I was afraid, because I was naked, so I hid myself" (Gen 3:10). Adam and Eve then play the blame game and then come the punishments. Edited April 6, 2009 by HisChildForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I have always been told that this is the reason God was looking for them. God certainly knew where they were, and had they owned up to their sin and apologized right then and there and not tried to pass the blame around, God would have offered forgiveness (since that is the nature of God, to be merciful and forgiving) and redeemed them. Original sin is not over until Adam and Eve refuse to repent of their sin, thus sealing the fate of the human race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I believe that according to tradition that the young man was John Mark, the purported author of Mark, in "Word Meanings in the New Testament", Ralph Earle says, “This brief incident is found only in this Gospel. It might be Mark’s way of saying, ‘I was there.’ If the Last Supper took place in the home of John Mark’s mother (cf. Acts 12:12), Judas Iscariot may have returned there first to betray Jesus. We can then understand how John Mark would be roused, perhaps grab a sheet to cover his body, and rush to [Gethsemane] to warn Jesus.” How weird eh? The Greek word used to describe his linen cloth was the same word used later to describe Jesus' burial linen. But I could be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Everyone is googling the same stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1826075' date='Apr 6 2009, 01:25 AM']Everyone is googling the same stuff.[/quote] Not much comes up when you google info for it. Only got three sites that were on topic. Everything else was something else. It's like no one studies this part. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/creed/track/beautiful"]Creed - Beautiful[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 This might be the most bizarre thing in all of the Gospels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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