Is Notre Dame Actually Catholic?

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otr.cfm?id=4962"]From Catholic Culture:[/url]
[quote]However, after his initial upset, your Uncle Di recalled that little declaration made over forty years ago by the Notre Dame administrator-in-chief, Fr. Theodore Hesburgh. It was forty years ago when the leaders of the major Catholic universities agreed to the Land O’Lakes rebellion of 1967.

Notre Dame’s Fr. Hesburgh was the rebels’ alpha male who ceremoniously announced that Catholic colleges and universities should be independent of, and no longer submissive to the teaching authority of the Catholic Church in their teaching and research functions, if they wanted to be “effective.” Evidently, the Notre Dame trustees, and the bulk of its faculty wanted the school to be “effective”—that is, well thought of in the editorial pages of the New York Times. They accepted the terms of rebellion. The ties to the Church were kept in name only.

This was all clearly and piously set forth in the second sentence in the Land O’Lakes declaration:

[quote]To perform its teaching and research functions effectively the Catholic university must have a true autonomy and academic freedom in the face of authority of whatever kind, lay or clerical, external to the academic community itself.[/quote][/quote]

[quote]The Notre Dame administration has never repudiated the Land O’Lakes rebellion. Naturally, Notre Dame does not require its theology faculty to submit to the Mandatum set forth in the encyclical Ex Corde Ecclesia. Indeed, its current president has rendered the Mandatum a shell game.

Today’s outrage at the Notre Dame administration over the Obama invitation presupposes that Notre Dame is actually Catholic. But is Notre Dame actually Catholic? It would seem, after all, in the fine print that it is not. Being Catholic is not the same as being a member of a club, a social network, or a football booster, or a place that the bishop occasionally has dinner or says Mass. Simply because Notre Dame puts the word Catholic in its mission statement, and the local bishop has not gotten around to striking it from the phone listing in the diocesan directory, doesn’t mean it’s Catholic.

A Catholic person, or a Catholic school is a member of the mystical body of Christ, which entails, as Newman put it in his Discourses to Mixed Congregations, the unqualified willingness to submit yourself to the living authority of the Catholic Church. Since the Notre Dame administration is not willing to submit the school to legitimate Catholic authority, it is arguably not Catholic, and has not been Catholic since July 23, 1967, the day Fr. Hesburgh signed the Land O’Lakes declaration of independence.[/quote]
more at the link

[tinytherese]

I really don't have a high opinion of Notre Dame. They have the Vagina Monologues for goodness sake and I one of my teachers at my catholic high school attended there and some of what he said in class was unorthodox, like that God might have been the one who disguised Himself as a serpent and tempted Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. It's too bad, because some stuff that he taught us really was good stuff but most of my classmates might have drank in everything that he said without question because hey he had a ph.d. I didn't want to speak up to challenge him though because a fifteen year old wouldn't have been taken as seriously as someone with a doctorate in biblical studies.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1832624' date='Apr 12 2009, 02:34 AM']...like that God might have been the one who disguised Himself as a serpent and tempted Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit...[/quote]

And then punished himself? It'd be like Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar "I'm kicking my own butt!"

I can see it now..."Don't eat the apple...okay, go on, eat the apple...God told you not to eat the apple *chuckles to himself* Go ahead, do it. Oh! You ate it! Banished! Off you go! Oh, naughty me...naughty, naughty, naughty me..."

Somehow, it just doesn't seems like something God would do. Granted, He gave them the situation and knew what would happen, but what a ridiculous claim, that God may in fact be Satan...

[Legend Chaser]

It is not Catholic, are you kidding? The reason why everyone is in an uproar is because Notre Dame is running around saying "HEY WE'RE CATHOLIC!-just kidding guys." It's lying. If it's going to have this sort of thing, it needs to be open and say "We are not Catholic and we do this." That doesn't make it okay, but it means it's not lying and students get what they intend to come for.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1832734' date='Apr 12 2009, 10:24 AM']And then punished himself? It'd be like Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar "I'm kicking my own butt!"

I can see it now..."Don't eat the apple...okay, go on, eat the apple...God told you not to eat the apple *chuckles to himself* Go ahead, do it. Oh! You ate it! Banished! Off you go! Oh, naughty me...naughty, naughty, naughty me..."

Somehow, it just doesn't seems like something God would do. Granted, He gave them the situation and knew what would happen, but what a ridiculous claim, that God may in fact be Satan...[/quote]

Yea, and it wasn't the only illogical thing that he told us about the bible. He gave us notes about Samson and said that his conception was a virginal one since he didn't have an earthly father. I was probably the only one familiar with the story, so I was the one who picked up on that error. Honestly, you could be a total atheist and pick up on it. All you would have to do is pick up the bible and read the opening of the story yourself and see that no, Samson did have a father. Not only that but they were an older couple who had failed to conceive. It was be irrational to think that for all of the years of their marriage that they didn't consumate their marriage vows and then wonder why they hadn't conceived a child yet.

My classmates hadn't even read it and probably didn't care to though, so it would have just been me standing up to a scripture scholar. I opted out though, again it didn't seem like I would have been taken as seriously as him. He just kept going on comparing Samson to Jesus who also had a virginal conception. So my first experience with typology wasn't even actual typology.

Edited April 12, 2009 by tinytherese

[Lilllabettt]

My little bro is starting his freshman year there in the Fall. He has no religion to speak of, but I'm hoping he'll get some while he's there.

ND is not Steubenville or Thomas Aquinas, but they do graduate a lot of traditional, orthodox Catholic people.

They were complicit in the dissent escapades of the 1960s, yes. But CUA had Fr. Curran, didn't they, and they are still considered "Catholic."

I happen to think there is a strong Catholic identity at ND, and it is growing stronger every year. [url="http://www.notredameprocession.com/"]This is the website for their annual Eucharistic procession[/url] ... I think it's interesting to point out, among their prayer intentions is greater respect for human life.

[Maggyie]

In their recruitment brochures they do emphasize Catholic identity and I know they are trying to recruit more Catholic professors. Don't know how it really is "on the ground" though.

[Apotheoun]

I found this ND website interesting:

[url="http://corecouncil.nd.edu/"][u]Core Council for Gay and Lesbian Students[/u][/url]

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1833062' date='Apr 12 2009, 08:36 PM']I found this ND website interesting:

[url="http://corecouncil.nd.edu/"][u]Core Council for Gay and Lesbian Students[/u][/url][/quote]


Yeah it is. They quote a lot of Church teaching, the catechism, etc., but there are some things I would personally disagree with.

For example, when they say:

[quote]However, the language of objectively disordered is often misinterpreted and wrongly reduced to “homosexuals have a disorder”—as if one’s sexual orientation were a disease or somehow wrong. However, the Church does not say that the homosexual orientation is wrong; rather, it is sexual activity between same sex persons that is “objectively disordered” and therefore sinful. Consequently, the Church says that homosexuals are called to life-long celibacy.[/quote]

They get the end right ... but I would say that the orientation itself is disordered. Temptation of any kind is a result of the disorder introduced into the world by original sin, right?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1833067' date='Apr 12 2009, 05:48 PM']Yeah it is. They quote a lot of Church teaching, the catechism, etc., but there are some things I would personally disagree with.[/quote]
Ditto.

As I see it there is no need at all for a "Gay and Lesbian" group at a Catholic school.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1833068' date='Apr 12 2009, 08:49 PM']Ditto.

As I see it there is no need at all for a "Gay and Lesbian" group at a Catholic school.[/quote]


I don't know. There are divorced ministries everywhere nowadays. Alcoholism recovery groups, too. I can see how people who have the SSA cross to bear might have "special needs" for lack of a better term. As long as their goal is to help people live the teachings of the Church (as opposed to accepting and confirming sin) than I don't have a strong objection.

[Apotheoun]

Why not have pedophilia and ephebophilia groups, and have a group for kleptomaniacs too. The "Gay and Lesbian" groups at Catholic schools are the result of political correctness run-amok.

[CatherineM]

The Church approved the Courage Apostolate for ministry to those with Same Sex Attraction. Dioceses with chapters are run with the approval of their bishops. There is nothing "politically correct" about ministering to those with very heavy crosses if done with the approval of the Church.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1833079' date='Apr 12 2009, 06:08 PM']The Church approved the Courage Apostolate for ministry to those with Same Sex Attraction. Dioceses with chapters are run with the approval of their bishops. There is nothing "politically correct" about ministering to those with very heavy crosses if done with the approval of the Church.[/quote]
And I would be okay with a chapter of Courage at ND, but that isn't what the "Core Council" is about.

[Lilllabettt]

According to the website, it was "established to recommend how the University should respond to the needs of gay and lesbian students within the context of Catholic teaching."

Looks to me like they're encouraging homosexuals to accept their condition as a permanent part of who they are .. I don't agree with that. But they are telling them that they are called to be celibate, which sounds Catholic to me.