Obama Says We Are Not A Christian Nation

[Saint Therese]

I don't think we are a Christian nation. Poland is a Christian nation. We are not even in their league.Of course I dont mean it the way President Hussein does. But i dont think anyone can sanely argue that our country wasn't founded on the Christian tradition.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Saint Therese

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1832400' date='Apr 11 2009, 11:36 PM']Even if our founders weren't all Christians, our democracy was certainly divinely inspired. You can see that in the way they forsaw and planned ahead for so much.[/quote]
I don't think I have anything to say to this.
[quote]A nation's people influences the culture and the culture influences the government. If the people are Chirstian, celebrate Christian holidays, etc. ...it's safe to say it is a "Christian nation"...although not in a theocratic sense. True, it depends on intent and context, but Obama was clearly trying to appease the Turkish government, and undermine conservatives.[/quote]
Perhaps it's fair to say we have a Christian [i]culture[/i]. But for reasons already stated we are not, have never been, and probably will never be a Christian nation.

Also, how many recall that Turkey is a [u]secular[/u] state? This ties in in more ways than one: 99% (no exaggeration: that's the figure) of Turks are Muslim, yet Turkey (the Republic of Turkey, that is) has always been, and is now, a secular state - not unlike the US.

Edited April 12, 2009 by USAirwaysIHS

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1832400' date='Apr 12 2009, 12:36 AM']Even if our founders weren't all Christians, our democracy was certainly divinely inspired. You can see that in the way they forsaw and planned ahead for so much...[/quote]

Our Founders weren't all Christian, as you said. They didn't found a "Christian Nation." They did found a [i]secular[/i] nation--and keep in mind "secular" and "secularist" are two different things.

And I have to say it: they didn't in any way set out to found a Democracy. The truth is quite the opposite; they hated Democracy.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1832421' date='Apr 12 2009, 12:55 AM']Perhaps it's fair to say we have a Christian [i]culture[/i].[/quote]

Yes, I would agree with that also.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1832402' date='Apr 11 2009, 11:39 PM']Divine inspiration in the founding of America?
Seems to have not worked out particularly well.

I suppose I'll leave this to the people who are already talking.[/quote]

Our system of government is most definately divinely inspired. The problem lies with the sinfulness and dissallusionment of our culture. But our system of government is very fair when compared the variety of oppressive governments throughout the world. It is similiar to the teachings of the Church, in so that, when they are implemented correctly, the system works quite well. Even with all our problems in America we are still very blessed.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1832421' date='Apr 11 2009, 11:55 PM']I don't think I have anything to say to this.

Perhaps it's fair to say we have a Christian [i]culture[/i]. But for reasons already stated we are not, have never been, and probably will never be a Christian nation.

Also, how many recall that Turkey is a [u]secular[/u] state? This ties in in more ways than one: 99% (no exaggeration: that's the figure) of Turks are Muslim, yet Turkey (the Republic of Turkey, that is) has always been, and is now, a secular state - not unlike the US.[/quote]


I suppose it comes down to a definition of terms. I would call Turkey a "Muslim country"...if the majority of the ppl are Muslim then Islam most certainly influences the government.

Again, it comes down to Obama's general tone. What was his purpose in saying that the US in not a "Christian nation?"

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1832424' date='Apr 11 2009, 11:58 PM']Our Founders weren't all Christian, as you said. They didn't found a "Christian Nation." They did found a [i]secular[/i] nation--and keep in mind "secular" and "secularist" are two different things.

And I have to say it: they didn't in any way set out to found a Democracy. The truth is quite the opposite; they hated Democracy.[/quote]

Some degree separation of Church and state was most certainly our founder's intent, however, the religiousity of the US was never in question.

Edited April 12, 2009 by friendofJPII

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1832700' date='Apr 12 2009, 08:42 AM']Some degree separation of Church and state was most certainly our founder's intent, however, the religiousity of the US was never in question.[/quote]

A vast degree of separation between Church and State was the Founder's intent. And the religiosity of the [i]citizenry[/i] was never in question.

I agree with a few other people -- the problem is in confusion of the terms being discussed. We need to be able to talk of the culture without talking about the Nation; and many people cannot distinguish. We need to be able to talk of the country without talking about the State; but in the minds of many people, the two are indistinguishable.

I blame the Government Schools for that.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1832752' date='Apr 12 2009, 10:00 AM']A vast degree of separation between Church and State was the Founder's intent. And the religiosity of the [i]citizenry[/i] was never in question.

I agree with a few other people -- the problem is in confusion of the terms being discussed. We need to be able to talk of the culture without talking about the Nation; and many people cannot distinguish. We need to be able to talk of the country without talking about the State; but in the minds of many people, the two are indistinguishable.

I blame the Government Schools for that.[/quote]

I would say, strictly speaking, we are not a Chrisian nation. Generally speaking, we are. Spiritually speaking, we are not living up to ideal. But "Easterly" speaking, there is always hope. God have mercy on America!

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1832752' date='Apr 12 2009, 10:00 AM']A vast degree of separation between Church and State was the Founder's intent. And the religiosity of the [i]citizenry[/i] was never in question.

I agree with a few other people -- the problem is in confusion of the terms being discussed. We need to be able to talk of the culture without talking about the Nation; and many people cannot distinguish. We need to be able to talk of the country without talking about the State; but in the minds of many people, the two are indistinguishable.

I blame the Government Schools for that.[/quote]

A vast degree of separation between an official church and state but not a vast separation between the natural law (whom God is the author of) and state.

Edited April 12, 2009 by friendofJPII

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1832752' date='Apr 12 2009, 10:00 AM']A vast degree of separation between Church and State was the Founder's intent. And the religiosity of the [i]citizenry[/i] was never in question.

I agree with a few other people -- the problem is in confusion of the terms being discussed. We need to be able to talk of the culture without talking about the Nation; and many people cannot distinguish. We need to be able to talk of the country without talking about the State; but in the minds of many people, the two are indistinguishable.

I blame the Government Schools for that.[/quote]

I think it is impossible to separate goverment from culture...esp. one that is "By the People, for the people..." Just as it is impossible to separate the Church from culture.

[Lounge Daddy]

Perhaps. But it's good to have goals--and maybe that is something to work toward

[Mr.Cat]

Technically we never have been a “[i]Christian Nation[/i]”, not even practically, though the United has been more of a “[i]Masonic Nation[/i]”. But I could believe at one time our culture was extremely “[i]Christian[/i]”, or at least “[i]Protestant[/i]”. But clearly this is no longer the case.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1832791' date='Apr 12 2009, 12:53 PM']Technically we never have been a “[i]Christian Nation[/i]”, not even practically, though the United has been more of a “[i]Masonic Nation[/i]”. But I could believe at one time our culture was extremely “[i]Christian[/i]”, or at least “[i]Protestant[/i]”. But clearly this is no longer the case.[/quote]

That's a fantastic point! In some people's mind, because our Founders happened to be Judeo-Christians, or at least theists, that equates the founding of "a Christian nation." But following that logic, it would be more accurate to say that because the Founders were largely Masons, this is a "Masonic Nation." Most of the old Federal buildings are even engraved with Masonic imagery.