Somali Pirates

[KnightofChrist]

We just as pitifully deceived when we sin. Even all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags in the sight God, a sincere pray is never wasted.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1834305' date='Apr 13 2009, 07:22 PM']Simple Fishermen would not go and kidnap another deny him of his freedom, and then demand [u]millions[/u] for ransom. These are organized acts of aggression. And anyway we can not do evil so good can come from it. And on that note should we trust or support men that deny other men their freedom at the barrel of a gun?[/quote]

They have a limited food supply and others have been helping themselves in Somali waters for years. And, again, where do they turn for help? The US? The UK? France? The UN?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1834331' date='Apr 13 2009, 07:43 PM']They have a limited food supply and others have been helping themselves in Somali waters for years. And, again, where do they turn for help? The US? The UK? France? The UN?[/quote]


Even if these where but fishermen, not working for some type of criminal or terrorist organization it is wicked to rob men of their liberty. And it is unwise to support such a group. These pirates may at one time been just simple fishermen protecting their oceans. But when they rob other men of liberty threatening to murder their neighbor they cross the line from fisherman to pirate.

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1834314' date='Apr 13 2009, 07:30 PM']Don't bother trying to correct someone who doesn't know the first thing about me but thinks they have the movements of my soul all figured out.[/quote]

MV, I'm sorry if i've offended you but I'm not like that. I know that Adonai Yeshua does not allow us to judge. All I'm saying is that you are sometimes very harsh in your posts. You are right I do not know you, but please do not diss me like that. I'm just trying to make a simple suggestion as your brother in Christ should do. And I did nto come here to start trouble. However, you spend a lot of your time going after extremists that you paint all of them with the same brush. What about the Tutsi Rebels in the Rwandan Genocide. Should they have not defended their minority people. Violence is always evil and in this case it has gotten extremely out of hand. But when you start to come at these people who you don't know you are guilty of doing exactly what you accuse me of doing.

Edited April 14, 2009 by saintwannabe 777

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1834346' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:02 PM']Even if these where but fishermen, not working for some type of criminal or terrorist organization it is wicked to rob men of their liberty. And it is unwise to support such a group. These pirates may at one time been just simple fishermen protecting their oceans. But when they rob other men of liberty threatening to murder their neighbor they cross the line from fisherman to pirate.[/quote]

Again, other countries and outside companies are fishing in Somali waters -- what is the alternative? They cannot turn to others for help, and they cannot just allow others to enter their land and water and sap their livelihood. This is their food source.

If any other country has people unwelcome and entering their waters, they get arrested and held for bail. Or shot and killed. The vast majority of the time, the Somalis are not choosing the later.

[Lounge Daddy]

I think the interesting thing is, because the Somali isn't an organized State -- that makes this not ok.

[Church Punk]

How about the awesome shot of the SEAL sniper!

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1834356' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:13 PM']Again, other countries and outside companies are fishing in Somali waters -- what is the alternative? They cannot turn to others for help, and they cannot just allow others to enter their land and water and sap their livelihood. This is their food source.[/quote]

Still it is wicked to do evil so good [u]may[/u] come from it.

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1834356' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:13 PM']If any other country has people unwelcome and entering their waters, they get arrested and held for bail. Or shot and killed. The vast majority of the time, the Somalis are not choosing the later.[/quote]

The problem with that logic is that most other nations, nations that are not corrupt, do not threaten to murder the 'arrested' person. And do not demand millions dollars of 'bail' money for the 'arrested' person.

Many of the attacks have been on the open sea, ([url="http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=219"]as can be seen here[/url]) which would be acts of aggression by a state.

Edited April 14, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[Madame Vengier]

Yes, way. And what's all this talk about how they aren't violent?

[url="http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025669.php"]http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025669.php[/url]

[quote]Al-Shabaab al-Mujahideen (“Jihadist Youth”) is linked to al-Qaeda and advocates the strict application of Islamic law. It came to the fore in Somalia after the 2006 toppling by Ethiopian troops of the Islamic Courts Union government that ruled briefly in Mogadishu. Al-Shabaab now controls more of Somalia than the Islamic Courts Union did even at the height of its power, and its reach extends beyond Somalia alone. Some of the Somali immigrants who have been mysteriously disappeared from the Minneapolis area have been recruited for jihad by al-Shabaab, which has also attracted jihad fighters from around the world to join its efforts to take control in Somalia. And -- it is a recipient of the pirates' loot.

"Al Shabaab says behind U.S. congressman attack," from Reuters, April 13 (thanks to Sr. Soph):

MOGADISHU, April 13 (Reuters) - Somalia's militant Islamist rebel group al Shabaab said on Monday it was behind mortars fired at U.S. congressman Donald Payne as he left the anarchic Horn of Africa nation after a rare visit by a U.S. politician.
"We fired on the airport to target the so-called democratic congressman sent by (U.S. President Barack) Obama," Sheikh Hussein Ali, an al Shabaab spokesman, told Reuters.[/quote]



[b]And, this has been going on for some time. (From August 2009)[/b]

Somali pirates funding mainland jihad

As random and destructive as Islamists may appear, they are often, one way or another, "supporting" the greater jihad -- which is precisely why they can get away (from an Islamic perspective) with being destructive and violent. These Somali pirates, for instance, are engaged in jihad al-mal (monetary jihad). Update on this story. "Piracy ransoms funding Somalia insurgency," by Daniel Wallis for Reuters, August 24:

NAIROBI (Reuters) - An explosion of piracy this month off the coast of Somalia is funding a growing insurgency onshore as the hijackers funnel hefty ransom payments to Islamist rebels, a maritime official said on Sunday.

A record four ships were seized in 48 hours last week off the anarchic Horn of Africa nation, meaning Somali pirates are currently holding hostage four cargo vessels, two tankers and a tug boat, along with about 130 crew members.

The spike in attacks at sea has coincided with a rise in assaults on land by radical al-Shabaab [the "youth"] insurgents, including the capture on Friday of Somalia's strategic southern port Kismayu.

The United States say al-Shabaab is a terrorist group with close ties to al Qaeda. Experts say some of the businessmen and warlords who command the pirates are also funding the rebels.

"The entire Somali coastline is now under control of the Islamists," Andrew Mwangura, head of the East African Seafarers' Assistance Programme, told Reuters in an interview.

"According to our information, the money they make from piracy and ransoms goes to support al-Shabaab activities onshore."

Piracy has been rife off Somalia since warlords overthrew dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991. Experts say at least 30 ships have been hijacked off the coast so far this year -- and the attacks have hit unprecedented levels this month.

"It's crazy. We have never seen anything like it in our years of tracking them," Mwangura said. "They've broken all records for piracy in this region and indeed the whole world."

RICH REWARDS

The main lure is money. Most of the hijacked ships have brought ransoms of at least $10,000, and sometimes much more.

Many pirates, particularly in the northern Puntland region, have quickly become local celebrities, flaunting their newfound cash by building palatial beachside villas, marrying extra wives or roaring around its dusty towns in flashy cars.[...]

Thursday -- a day before al-Shabaab fighters seized Kismayu following battles that killed at least 70 people -- was the worst day on record for piracy in Somali waters.

In the space of one day, gunmen hijacked a German cargo ship, an Iranian bulk carrier and a Japanese-operated tanker. That came after a Malaysian tanker laden with palm oil was seized in the same area on Wednesday.

The pirates are also holding a Thai cargo ship, a Nigerian tug boat and a Japanese-managed bulk carrier.

Mwangura said the captors of the Nigerian vessel had demanded a $1 million ransom to free it and its 10 crew.

He said there were also reports some Malaysian and Filipino hostages on board two of the other hijacked vessels might have been badly hurt by gunfire. But he said that was not confirmed.

His organization advises all shipping using the area to maintain a strict lookout for pirates around the clock, and to be especially wary of any small boats that approach them.

[url="http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022394.php"]http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022394.php[/url]

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
merging with other thread now in politicos phorum.

[Madame Vengier]

"Jihad al-mal" = Money Jihad.

Take note of it, certain someone who couldn't imagine jihadists pirating to fund jihad with...money.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1834387' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:42 PM']The problem with that logic is that most other nations, nations that are not corrupt, do not threaten to murder the 'arrested' person. And do not demand millions dollars of 'bail' money for the 'arrested' person.[/quote]

Again, out of hundreds of "pirate attacks" there has been nearly 0 deaths -- unless you count the pirates being killed by other State's militaries.

And you are right, most other nations, nations that are not corrupt, do not threaten to murder the 'arrested' person. But they do demand payment. And because Somalia cannot plea as a State, they do what they can.

What most other States are in fact, doing is poisoning the citizens of Somalia. Dumping waste inside Somalia and in Somali waters (which would explain some Somali fishermen going further out into the waters, and believing that they are justified in doing so). This has been happening for years. That's a bit worse than holding people for ransom, isn't it?

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
off topic posts have been deleted.

[Lounge Daddy]

I find it interesting that
#1 - if they were flying a State flag (if Somalia were currently a State) they would be somehow justified in their actions. The UN might even hear an appeal for help.
#2 - the fact that most every developed nation has been using shipping lanes for the purpose of dumping toxic waste inside Somalia, killing and sicking Somali families, seems to be something of little consequence. (There's a reason they are not turning to other countries for help.)
#3 - the fact that, from the point of view of Soamlia, they are entitled to eat food that isn't poisoned (which I entirely agree with) doesn't seem to matter.

They are doing what any other country would do. And the fact is, the West is the source of the problem. But might makes right, I guess. And the Western States have all the might.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Lounge Daddy

[txdinghysailor]

Honestly I don't give a darn about people in Somalia, how they got where they are, or where they're going. I figure we gotta fix our own problems before we worry about the rest of the world. But if they wanna mess with us, then by golly I think we have every right to blast them out of this world. I don't care where they're from, what religion they are, or what they ate for breakfast that morning. If they are threatening American citizens and American shipping they are opening themselves up to retaliation. Simple as that. You mess with our ships, we blow you up.