CatherineM Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 The news reporters here did talk about the toxic waste dumping issue. I was just thinking this morning that my old journalism teacher would be shocked at the state of the US press right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Wow seriously? Criminals are the good guys now? No no no! People come on! Taking hostages is never ok, threatening to kill them is never ok either! [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1812820' date='Mar 20 2009, 11:21 PM']To be quite honest, considering that piracy appears to be the only paying job around there right now, I'm not about to condemn them. From the sounds of it, they treat their prisoners quite decently (for the most part), and while it's still very much illegal and dangerous... I just have a hard time entirely denouncing them. After all, they aren't breaking any laws in their own country..... [/quote] A hard time denouncing them, why?? Who cares if its illegal in their country. Its an offense against the person to take someone hostage and threaten\ransom their lives. Not to take this to the wrong level, but nearly every war crime was legal in the home country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='VoTeckam' post='1833756' date='Apr 13 2009, 10:31 AM']Crack dealers and bank robbers are defending their families as well. Terrorists are defending their countries and cultures. Having good reasons to steal and rob at gunpoint is not good enough. Ends ethics is not Christian Ethics.[/quote] Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='VoTeckam' post='1833756' date='Apr 13 2009, 10:31 AM']Crack dealers and bank robbers are defending their families as well. Terrorists are defending their countries and cultures. Having good reasons to steal and rob at gunpoint is not good enough. Ends ethics is not Christian Ethics.[/quote] Actually there are acceptable reasons to steal basic life necessities (e.g., if your family is starving), and you are permitted to use force to defend your life or the lives of people you love or your countrymen, as in the case of war. There are times when it is appropriate to employ means that would otherwise be unacceptable in order to achieve a just result. Not saying that this is what happened here, though. The exceptions to the general rule are quite well-defined, and my opinion is that piracy doesn't fall into the zone of acceptable behavior. [quote name='CatherineM' post='1833774' date='Apr 13 2009, 11:18 AM']The news reporters here did talk about the toxic waste dumping issue. I was just thinking this morning that my old journalism teacher would be shocked at the state of the US press right now.[/quote] Media outlets of various sorts have done a piss poor job of adapting to the changing media climate. Most newspapers are struggling right now, largely due to the fact that they didn't adapt quickly enough to the introduction of the internet. So they're trimming staff, and news coverage suffers as a result. Television is having similar struggles, but I think they have an easier time of it. They're still dependent on ad revenues, though, and those have tanked out as the economy has tanked, so all media outlets are struggling to cover the news with smaller, less experienced staffs. Media gets a bad rap because it tailors coverage to what people want. While there's something to be said for telling people what they need to hear rather than what they want to hear (i.e., basing news coverage on audience feedback and ratings rather than on news judgment), the raw fact of the matter is that media is business. If it doesn't make money, it won't be around. I think audiences are the biggest reason news coverage is as bad as it is. We don't want to think too critically about what's happening. We want to be reassured that government can do what we pay it to do, and we don't want a media that's going to be overly critical. We got what we asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' post='1833780' date='Apr 13 2009, 11:42 AM']A hard time denouncing them, why?? Who cares if its illegal in their country. Its an offense against the person to take someone hostage and threaten\ransom their lives. Not to take this to the wrong level, but nearly every war crime was legal in the home country.[/quote] I never said that I think they're doing a good thing. However, with their current state of affairs I'm willing to consider the possibility that not every Somali pirate is an abjectly murderous terrorist. Yes, I believe taking hostages is quite wrong. I just don't believe that every Somali pirate is outright evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1833783' date='Apr 13 2009, 11:46 AM']I never said that I think they're doing a good thing. However, with their current state of affairs I'm willing to consider the possibility that not every Somali pirate is an abjectly murderous terrorist. Yes, I believe taking hostages is quite wrong. I just don't believe that every Somali pirate is outright evil.[/quote] The Somali pirate intends to steal a boat, possibly (probably) taking the crew hostage, and then ransoming both the crew, the boat, and the cargo. How is this not wrong? What justification can be claimed for this? They're poor and hungry? They're not stealing food here... Note most news I've seen say these pirates are simply fishermen that have employed for more "lucrative" jobs - such as piracy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' post='1833785' date='Apr 13 2009, 11:50 AM']The Somali pirate intends to steal a boat, possibly (probably) taking the crew hostage, and then ransoming both the crew, the boat, and the cargo. How is this not wrong? What justification can be claimed for this? They're poor and hungry? They're not stealing food here... Note most news I've seen say these pirates are simply fishermen that have employed for more "lucrative" jobs - such as piracy...[/quote] I just said that objectively [b]it [u]is[/u] [/b]wrong. I just don't think they're all black and white evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='Terra Firma' post='1833782' date='Apr 13 2009, 01:44 PM']Actually there are acceptable reasons to steal basic life necessities (e.g., if your family is starving), and you are permitted to use force to defend your life or the lives of people you love or your countrymen, as in the case of war. There are times when it is appropriate to employ means that would otherwise be unacceptable in order to achieve a just result. Not saying that this is what happened here, though. The exceptions to the general rule are quite well-defined, and my opinion is that piracy doesn't fall into the zone of acceptable behavior.[/quote] I agree that there are times that stealing might be justified (a mother stealing formula for a starving child might be just), but some on this thread might compare that mother to the pirates who are taking hostages for hundred million dollar ransoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilianus Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Whatever their motives, they are pirates. Pirates = bad guys, they need to be dealt with accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1833791' date='Apr 13 2009, 10:56 AM']I just said that objectively [b]it [u]is[/u] [/b]wrong. I just don't think they're all black and white evil.[/quote] Most of us aren't either all good or all bad. Most of us have a little of each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='Terra Firma' post='1833888' date='Apr 13 2009, 02:25 PM']Most of us aren't either all good or all bad. Most of us have a little of each.[/quote] Of course, of course. Like I said from the start though, while what they're doing is objectively wrong, I'm not about to wholeheartedly condemn them for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 The only thing I know for sure is that I don't intend to take a cruise ship through the Gulf of Aden any time in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 It's just more Islamic jihad, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1833911' date='Apr 13 2009, 02:48 PM']The only thing I know for sure is that I don't intend to take a cruise ship through the Gulf of Aden any time in the near future.[/quote] I dunno... I thought it seemed pretty legit. The cruise ship is so nice too! [img]http://www.knightsbridgeinvest.com/realestateblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/russian.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1833915' date='Apr 13 2009, 02:50 PM']It's just more Islamic jihad, that's all.[/quote] Do you think this is jihad? It doesn't look like it has the same motivation to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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