Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) Peace pham I am wondering how it can be a mortal sin to presume one day you will be in Heaven with Jesus ? I know one is to walk out their faith in fear and trembling and you cant do this without fear of hell I would assume. Scripture says : "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:13 The word that sticks out to me is [font="Arial Black"]KNOW[/font]. Now mabey that can be taken two ways. I guess it can be possible to know that you have 500 dollars in poker chips in front of you as long as you dont lose them in the next hand. Although I could take it the other way and look at it to say that you know your grandma is coming to pick you up after school because she told you that she is going to. So if you have faith that your grandma loves you and know her word is good you have no reason to doubt she is coming for you. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36 He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47 "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40 Thoughts ? Godbless, Josh Edited April 16, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Presumption is presuming God's mercy. Meaning if you're about to commit a mortal sin on purpose because you know that God will forgive you so you're all set with doing it, that is presumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Moosey' post='1836802' date='Apr 15 2009, 10:40 PM']Presumption is presuming God's mercy. Meaning if you're about to commit a mortal sin on purpose because you know that God will forgive you so you're all set with doing it, that is presumption.[/quote] Godbless Moosey. Thanks for clearing that up. I had it mixed up what it meant and now I just did a search and here's what I found : The Sin of Presumption If you keep committing the same sins over and over, you presume that you can be reconciled with God without having to change your behavior. You presume that a show of contrition can pass for perfect contrition. But contrition is perfect only when you are moved to such sorrow that you will do anything you can to change your behavior.[1] If you are unwilling to do anything it takes to change your behavior, you are not really contrite, and you are not confessing all your sins, because one of your sins is the unwillingness to do anything it takes to change your behavior. And what you do not confess prevents your reconciliation with God. Presumption, therefore, is a wicked snare because it can make itself appear as if it isn’t even happening. My question : Going by this theory I should be so moved to never commit a mortal sin again in my life. But how is this possible ? I know and am almost certian I will commit another mortal sin in my life. Heck the next one might be 2 hours from now. How can I be sure of my salvation like the scipture tells me to and Know that I have eternal life if the above text is correct ? I think I understand what it is getting at by we should avoid mortal sins by all means necessary, but at the same time I'm a wretched sinner. So what gives ? As long as I have the fear of moral sin I can in no way, shape, or form " know " that I have eternal life. But the scripture tell me just that, to have faith and know that I have eternal life. Edited April 16, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 You're misinterpreting the text. They don't mean that you have to be perfect only that if you commit the same sin over and over because you believe you're safe because God is merciful, that is wrong. We commit mortal sins, but those of us with a well formed conscience almost instantly feel guilty afterwards and confess it. But there are other kinds of sinners who right before they know they're about to commit a mortal sin have in the back of their mind that fact they can just run to confession this week to clean up the mess they're about to make on purpose. Its using the glorious sacrament of reconciliation as our own tool to let us do whatever we want without consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Moosey' post='1836836' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:04 PM']You're misinterpreting the text. They don't mean that you have to be perfect only that if you commit the same sin over and over because you believe you're safe because God is merciful, that is wrong. We commit mortal sins, but those of us with a well formed conscience almost instantly feel guilty afterwards and confess it. But there are other kinds of sinners who right before they know they're about to commit a mortal sin have in the back of their mind that fact they can just run to confession this week to clean up the mess they're about to make on purpose. Its using the glorious sacrament of reconciliation as our own tool to let us do whatever we want without consequences.[/quote] gotcha makes sence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Glad to be of service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 So basically as long as try my best to stay out of sin I can KNOW that i'm going to heaven. Right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 No one can know for sure. We can hope for it. We must always come to God with a contrite heart when going to confession. Never go to confession with the attitude that you plan on committing the same sin right after you get out of the confessional because God is forgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Nice job on the apologetics Moosey!! For reals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Shucks Thanks man. Im only good with things I have experience with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Very good job Moosey! Don't forget to take into account of habitual sins too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Yes that was the point I tried to convey. Thanks for the compliment You fellas didn't know I knew anything about apologetics didja? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Moosey' post='1837180' date='Apr 16 2009, 09:39 AM']Yes that was the point I tried to convey. Thanks for the compliment You fellas didn't know I knew anything about apologetics didja?[/quote] It wasn't a shock, I just like to point out an articulate argument when I see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Well it is the first time I've been brave enough to convey what I know in a thread right off. In any case I wait til everyone else has given their input before I chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 wait less talk more you be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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