Welfare Benefits

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1844476' date='Apr 23 2009, 11:35 AM']I don't have a history of drug use, but I submit to random tests as a condition of employment. The idea both to catch drug users and to make welfare more of an inconvenience than having a job. Currently, for too many, it isn't.[/quote]
Ah, i didn't even think of the convenience thing. That's quite clever, actually.

[Winchester]

I think the state can justify helping people in the larger interst of society, but currently, welfare isn't doing that. Making it a pain in the ass is a way to accomplish that.

[CatherineM]

The convenience thing is an interesting point. In disability filings, the norm was to refuse the first application, and force you to appeal. The thinking is that if you can still work, you will just go back to work rather than be without an income indefinitely. If you are truly disabled, and can't work, you will still be without work when the appeal goes through in a year or two.

[dairygirl4u2c]

most people don't disagree with the idea that thse one welfare should have requirements etc.
i mean, people can disagree about the details, that's not a big deal.
at least this thread is impliciticly acknowledging there's a time and place for welfare or whatever.
it's those extremists, conservative and liberal, that are the problems.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1841658' date='Apr 20 2009, 07:42 PM']Should require:

1. Regular drug tests
2. Job applications regularly submitted
3. Class attendance (parenting, vo-tech, etcetera)
4. Government service (picking up trash, for instance)
5. Regular inspection of home, if government assistance applies to housing
6. Minimum grades for children in school of C average or better

Why should welfare be free?[/quote]


This sounds like a proliferation of paperwork and bureaucracy. Paperwork to be submitted and people hired to check up on it all. There is something to be said for allowing the government to meddle in the lives of the poor, since these people are getting a pay out. But in the meantime, very deserving people who need assistance fall through the cracks.

And it gets tricky, because most of us receive some kind of benefit from the government over the course of our lives. Attend a state university? Have government loans? Is your money in a FDIC insured bank? Use a toll road?

How about some mandatory government service for all of us. (Oh wait, Obama already thought of that.) How about some regular home inspections or report card audits for the kids?

I'm not saying what you suggest is unreasonable. But give an inch they take a mile.

Welfare is not best done by the government. A privately funded and operated charitable program would be much more efficient.

[Saint Therese]

Iawtc.

Also, ets not forget that those on welfare have dignity. I think we should be careful that we're not penalizing the poor for being poor rather than for receiving benefits.

[rachael]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1849747' date='Apr 27 2009, 01:19 AM']Iawtc.

Also, ets not forget that those on welfare have dignity. I think we should be careful that we're not penalizing the poor for being poor rather than for receiving benefits.[/quote]

[Hassan]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1846154' date='Apr 24 2009, 02:25 PM']I think the state can justify helping people in the larger interst of society, but currently, welfare isn't doing that. Making it a pain in the ass is a way to accomplish that.[/quote]

I know my Uncle get's some state help from the state raising his two autistic children whose deadbeat mother skiped out on them, he's usually employed but sometimesit isin't. I guess its hard to hold a job when you constantly have to leave work because your very autistic child, whose father cannot afford the therapy he so badly needs, is continually being sent home from the crummy public school he attends. When he's not employed its usually because his son has been worse than usual. I guess he could call my 80 something year old grandfather to watch the suprisingly strong autistic teen prone to rages while he attends a state vocational class whose sole purpose seems to be to consume his time and make life more difficult. Perhapse that's not a good idea and he should call my aunt. Of course she's already raising his less autistic daughter because he can't give her the attention and care she needs taking care of Tommy (his son) along with her three children, one of whome she's putting college so she really doesn't have a lot of time or sick days to spare. That's about all the family options in his state

I know some peope on wellfare are bums, but they arn't all just playing the system. I don't know what you would consider him but I generally think of my uncle as a very hard working man busting his butt to try and get his son in a position where he'll be able to have some sort of future in his adult years. He's not a parasite sucking off the system, just trying to avoid getting a job, but I guess sometimes he does need help (although usually he is employed or lives off his savings). Kind of like my Aunt after she lost her job while raising her kids as a single mother after she kicked out her husband who had become an abusive alchoholic. I guess with people like my Uncle life's already pretty hard and there really is no end in sight, manipulating the system with the goal of making his life even harder would prolly not help to much.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Hassan

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1849888' date='Apr 27 2009, 08:48 AM']I know my Uncle get's some state help from the state raising his two autistic children whose deadbeat mother skiped out on them, he's usually employed but sometimesit isin't. I guess its hard to hold a job when you constantly have to leave work because your very autistic child, whose father cannot afford the therapy he so badly needs, is continually being sent home from the crummy public school he attends. When he's not employed its usually because his son has been worse than usual. I guess he could call my 80 something year old grandfather to watch the suprisingly strong autistic teen prone to rages while he attends a state vocational class whose sole purpose seems to be to consume his time and make life more difficult. Perhapse that's not a good idea and he should call my aunt. Of course she's already raising his less autistic daughter because he can't give her the attention and care she needs taking care of Tommy (his son) along with her three children, one of whome she's putting college so she really doesn't have a lot of time or sick days to spare. That's about all the family options in his state

I know some peope on wellfare are bums, but they arn't all just playing the system. I don't know what you would consider him but I generally think of my uncle as a very hard working man busting his butt to try and get his son in a position where he'll be able to have some sort of future in his adult years. He's not a parasite sucking off the system, just trying to avoid getting a job, but I guess sometimes he does need help (although usually he is employed or lives off his savings). Kind of like my Aunt after she lost her job while raising her kids as a single mother after she kicked out her husband who had become an abusive alchoholic. I guess with people like my Uncle life's already pretty hard and there really is no end in sight, manipulating the system with the goal of making his life even harder would prolly not help to much.[/quote]
Awesome personal anecdote which contributes absolutely nothing of substance to the topic.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1850859' date='Apr 27 2009, 07:59 PM']Awesome personal anecdote which contributes absolutely nothing of substance to the topic. [/quote]
Your existence contributes absolutely nothing of substance to society.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1851016' date='Apr 27 2009, 11:38 PM']Your existence contributes absolutely nothing of substance to society. [/quote]
And here I had you figured as a 'your mom' type of guy. The maturity level certainly is there.

[Hassan]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1850859' date='Apr 27 2009, 08:59 PM']Awesome personal anecdote which contributes absolutely nothing of substance to the topic. [/quote]




I guess hopelessly general assertions with no supporting evidence other than Winchester's apparent inate knowledge of the babysitting habits of every individual on welfare in the United States would be a substantive addition to the thread.

The claim was that Welfare needed to be made a "pain in the ass" because life on the government check was two easy as things stand now. How two direct counter examples to that assumption is not adressing the substance of the thread I do not know. Ancedotal it may be, it at least is some actual evidence, which i more than most of the individuals contributing their oppinions on the realities on life on wellfare have presented.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1849693' date='Apr 26 2009, 11:50 PM']Welfare is not best done by the government. A privately funded and operated charitable program would be much more efficient.[/quote]
I believe that this statement is true for many government-run operations. Some might ask if a private organization could raise enough money. My answer is absolutely - [i]if[/i] the government reduces the tax rate appropriately.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1851122' date='Apr 28 2009, 01:33 AM']I guess hopelessly general assertions with no supporting evidence other than Winchester's apparent inate knowledge of the babysitting habits of every individual on welfare in the United States would be a substantive addition to the thread.

The claim was that Welfare needed to be made a "pain in the ass" because life on the government check was two easy as things stand now. How two direct counter examples to that assumption is not adressing the substance of the thread I do not know. Ancedotal it may be, it at least is some actual evidence, which i more than most of the individuals contributing their oppinions on the realities on life on wellfare have presented.[/quote]
Your example deals with medical/psychological issues. This debate is focusing on those who are fully functional. The health/psych issues can be a major factor, for recipients as well as dependent children.

[Hassan]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1851170' date='Apr 28 2009, 08:39 AM']Your example deals with medical/psychological issues. This debate is focusing on those who are fully functional. The health/psych issues can be a major factor, for recipients as well as dependent children.[/quote]

My Uncle is fully functional, his son is not the one who goes on state unemployment. Nor is my Aunt.

I understand where Winchester is coming from and I don't want to make my Uncle seem like some suffering saint. He had a chance to go to college or whatever. All the kids had to pay their own way but my grandparents could help them in some ways and he decided he wanted to go a different route and I guess life didn't turn out how he planned. He's a nice guy and really does work hard for his children and such but I can understand how he got where he is (not so much that he is lazy as that he can't grab an oppertunity or reall take charge of advancing his own life).

He's where he's at because of life decisions he made and my paternal aunt and uncle have an autistic child and they never once went on wellfare so it can surely be done. My only point was that not everyone is on wellfare because they don't want a job and perhapse they are at a point where they can't have any more difficulty added to their lives. If we are talking about looking at wellfare as a helper in between jobs. You want the people on it to be doing something to better themselves and get to a point where they don't have to depend on the government I say alright. But just making regulations to make life on wellfare difficult is a whole another animal.