Mary Magdalen

[Resurrexi]

...

[SaintOlaf]

It says select all that apply, but you can only click one

[Resurrexi]

Oh oops. Fail on my part.

[Luigi]

We can vote any way we want, but that won't change who she actually was, will it?

[Slappo]

[quote name='Luigi' post='1843324' date='Apr 21 2009, 09:27 PM']We can vote any way we want, but that won't change who she actually was, will it?[/quote]

No. It is to give our opinion on who we believe she actually was based on the evidence that is available.

It is like guessing an author for Hebrews. Even the Church Fathers were split on who the author was. There is significant evidence for St. Paul, but there are logical arguments against St. Paul as the author as well.

It isn't wrong to speculate. I think it is the woman in adultery just because I never pictured Mary Magdalene as rich and the woman with ointment was. I think it also could have been the woman with ointment since there is huge spiritual marital imagery between Jesus and Mary Magdalen.

EDIT: But then they could be the same person...

Edited April 22, 2009 by Slappo

[TotusTuusMaria]

Catherine Emmerich says that Mary Magdalene is the sister of Martha, Lazerus, and Mary of Bethany who is a contemplative and saintly sister that almost reminds me of St. Gemma Galgani when I read of her in Catherine's works. I believe this sister dies early in Catherine's story. I haven't finished it yet.

There is another book I have though that is called [u]St. Mary Magdalene: Her Life and Times As Seen in the Gospels, History, and Tradition[/u] by Edith Filliette. I got it at the bookstore of the Sister Servants of the Eternal Word and it is published by the [url="http://www.st-mary-magdalene.org/index.htm"] Society of St. Mary Magdalene[/url] so I trust it as well.

There is a particular chapter in the book that may be of interest to you. It is called: [b]The Three Faces of Mary Magdalene[/b]

[quote]In the sixth century, Pope St. Gregory the Great made this proclamation on Mary Magdalene: "We believe that the one that Luke calls 'a sinner,' that John names 'Mary' is the same out of whom, according to Mark, ' seven demons were expelled.'"

The great Doctor of the Church made this statement after much meditation and reflection. It meant in fact, that the woman who anointed the Lord's feet with fragrant ointment in Magdala was also the woman, named Mary, who lived in Bethany, and the Mary to whom the risen Lord first appeared at the Resurrection.

A Century before Pope Gregory's proclamation, St. Jerome, the erudite translator of the Gospels commented that "Mary Magdalene had been a great sinner."

An the famous theologian, Origen, previously declared in the third century: "It is evident that Mary of Bethany is the same woman who anointed our Lord with perfume; St. Luke kept her name a secret, but St. John completed what had been left out."

For the medieval Latin Church until the 15th century, there was only one woman, not three, as some exegetes would attempt to prove.[/quote]

There is a chapter before that one called: [b]Bethany[/b]

[quote]The village of Bethany, mentioned several times in the Gospel, lies roughly three miles east of Jerusalem. Another village by the same name was in Perrea beyond the Jordan river and was a day's walk from Jerusalem. But the Bethany of Mary, Martha and Lazarus was close to the Holy City, a twenty minute walk that Jesus and his apostles frequently made.

Was the Mary of Magdala the same Mary we find in the house of Bethany? Whatever the speculations on the subject, it is St. John who gives us the answer. "Bethany was the name of the village where Mary lives with her sister Martha; and this Mary, whose brother Lazarus had now fallen sick, was the woman who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair." It is a very clear statement. Mary has come from Magdala and having made a clean cut with her former lifestyle, now lives in Bethany. The house there will have been spacious with many rooms to accommodate all the guests. This was Jesus' home whenever his ministry journeys took him to the region of Jerusalem.

It is Bethany that captured the happiest moments of Jesus' left, there where he came to rest among his friends. it was in Bethany that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead; where he gently chided Martha over her excessive concern with the household duties; where he left for his triumphal entry into Jerusalem; and on nearby Mount Olivet, he ascended to heaven.

And Mary Magdalene was part of it all.[/quote]

Then follows the chapter: [b]The disputers[/b]

[quote]Every age brings forth a number of critics who refute old beliefs and introduce new theories in the interpretation of the Scriptures. They usually manage to stir up controversy, divide opinions, and often leave the Christian world the poorer for it. Although their names may not be remembered in subsequent generations, they frequently attack the very basis of belief, as can be witnessed even today.

Thus opinions on Mary Magdalene became divided in the 15th century and the controversies continued into the 17th and 18th centuries. Some experts separated her into two distinct women: Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany; others held that there were three women, the sinner, and the two Marys.

Separate Feasts were entered for the two Marys and the sinner was forgotten. Later, the Church removed the Feast of Mary of Bethany. Today, the Latin Church celebrates only one Feast, that of Mary Magdalene on July 22.

The debates concerning the identity of Mary Magdalene caused confusion that still persists; while some dissected her into three parts, other added a fourth dimension to her personality, that of "woman caught in adultery" which bears no relation to her. The adulteress was told "Go and sin no more." Mary Magdalene was given a blessing with the words: "God in peace. Your sins are forgiven." The adulteress was one of several women mentioned only once in the Gospel; Mary Magdalene's name is repeated throughout the Gospel in relation to the greatest events that are the very foundations of Christianity.

In the last century, some wanted to do away with the "sinner" reference to Mary Magdalene they viewed as "improper." One expert ventured to state that "Christ would never have place a sinful woman at the head of the group who accompanies him in his ministry."

The truth, however, is that Christ was continually criticized because he did, in fact, consort with sinners. St. Matthew tells of an occasion where the Priests condemned him for this. And Jesus' reply shocked them as it must many critics in our time. "Believe me," said Jesus, "the harlots and publicans are further on the road to God's Kingdom than you." (Matthew 21:31-32)

St. Luke confirms that Jesus walked with the sinners because he had come to save what was lost; he had not come to praise the just but to call sinners to repentance. (Luke 5:27-32)

If Jesus would have only mingled with teh just, he could not have made his claim believable. In order that he could dramatically demonstrate the transformation in a repentant soul, he needed a sinner. And he took a great sinner, one bedeviled with many faults and weaknesses, so that his message could be clear and convincing.

He took one despised by the Jews to show that the Son of God was above their petty judgments. And, finally, he glorified her beyond all human imagination because she had loved more then all the others.

Will the controversies over Mary Magdalene ever be resolved? Probably not. For some, the separation of "sinful woman" and the "virtuous woman" remains necessary. but for all others Mary Magdalene is the magnificent symbol of Christ's redeeming love for all sinners, and as such, the symbol of his Church.[/quote]

[b]Is she Mary of Bethania, sister of Lazarus and Martha? [/b]I would say, yes, because of Scripture and Tradition.

"Bethany was the name of the village where Mary lived with her sister Martha, and this Mary, whose brother Lazarus had now fallen sick, was the woman who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair." John 11 1-2

[b]Is the Mary spoken of above of Magdala? Is the woman having an alabaster box of precious ointment?[/b] Yes, I believe so.

"Six days before the paschal feast, Jesus went to Bethany. Bethany was the home of Lazarus, the dead man whom Jesus raised to life. And a least was made for him there, at which Martha was waiting at table while Lazarus was one of his fellow guests. And now Mary brought in a pound of pure spikenard ointment, which was very precious, and poured it over Jesus' feet, wiping his feet with her hair; the whole house was scented with the ointment. One of his disciples, the same Judas Iscariot who was to betray him, said when he saw it, 'Why should not this ointment have been sold? It would have fetched three hundred silver pieces, and alms might have been given to the poor.' He said this, not fro any concern for the poor, but because he was a thief; he kept the common purse, and took what was put into it. And Jesus said, 'Let her alone; enough that she should keep it for the day when my body is prepared for the burial.'" John 12: 1-8

[u]They are obviously the same Mary as Scripture says so in John 11: 1-2.[/u] Both "Mary who lives in Bethany now" and this ointment Mary. [u]It is just a matter of if they are of Magdala? [/u]

Three years prior the repentant woman, not identified by Luke anoints the Lord with ointment and wipes his feet with her hair. Our Lord is in an unidentified town in Galilee, I believe, and dining with the Pharisee named Simon. St. Luke talks of the dinner in detail in Luke 7.

It is the same action that happens those three years later near the close of Christ's ministry in Jerusalem. A woman performs the same action again and the woman who performs this action is identified as Mary by John. They have to be the same woman.

We know Mary Magdalene traveled to Judea with Jesus, so she was in the company at Bethany... it is just if she was "Mary of Bethany"

"but all his acquaintances stood at a distance, including the women who had followed him from Galilee and saw these events." Luke 23:49

"Afterward he journeyed from one town and village to another, preaching and proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. Accompanying him were the Twelve and some women who had been cured of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, Joanna, the wife of Herod's steward Chuza, Susanna, and many others who provided for them out of their resources." Luke 8:1-3

The above shows that Mary went with him to Judea, so we know Mary Magdalene was with him in Bethany. Like said though, are these two "Marys" the same person?

St. Bonaventure says: "What she once did out of contrition, she now repeats out of devotion."

And when Our Lord rose he simply called Mary Magdalene, "Mary"

There are only four Mary's mentioned in the Gospels: Mary, his mother. Mary Clopas, his mother's sister/cousin, Mary Salome, and Mary Magdalene.

There are no other Marys. Mary of Bethany is never mentioned. I believe that Mary of Magdala repented and anointed Jesus in Magdala then she followed Jesus to Judea (like Scripture says) and stayed with her brother and sister in Bethany where she once again performed this action and is the simple "Mary" referred too.

I believe she is the repentant sinner. I do not believe she is the adulterer.

[b]Is the the adulterer?[/b] No. I don't think so. I would like her to be, but ... no. I don't think there is any proof.

[tinytherese]

Thankfully, we can find the answer to these questions and more in heaven (provided that we make it.)

I have some questions for the Apostles. I live in a suite with nine other girls and we've pulled pranks on each other before. So I got to thinking not that long ago, "I wonder if Jesus ever pulled pranks on any of the twelve or vice versa." I don't know which one would be more hilarious. Maybe they pranked each other. Holy Prank War!

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1843325' date='Apr 22 2009, 12:33 AM']No. It is to give our opinion on who we believe she actually was based on the evidence that is available.

It is like guessing an author for Hebrews. Even the Church Fathers were split on who the author was. There is significant evidence for St. Paul, but there are logical arguments against St. Paul as the author as well.[/quote]

But all the Church Fathers, who speak on her, agree on who Mary Magdalene was.

[quote]It isn't wrong to speculate. I think it is the woman in adultery just because I never pictured Mary Magdalene as rich and the woman with ointment was. I think it also could have been the woman with ointment since there is huge spiritual marital imagery between Jesus and Mary Magdalen.

EDIT: But then they could be the same person... [/quote]

It wouldn't be speculating as in John 11 he says that the woman with ointment is Mary.

It does not however say that the woman in adultery was Mary. Mel Gibson's movie "The Passion" says that...

Edited April 22, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[goldenchild17]

I don't think we can know for sure, but I do believe that the woman caught in adultery was Mary Magdalene. I have a particular devotion to her as portrayed in Anne Catherine Emmerich's visions who I believe (I have to double check my copy of the book of visions on Mary Magdalene) said that even after being rescued from the stoners by Christ did again fall once more into her sin, but was of course forgiven again and became a saint.

[Slappo]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1843336' date='Apr 21 2009, 08:51 PM']But all the Church Fathers, who speak on her, agree on who Mary Magdalene was.



It wouldn't be speculating as in John 11 he says that the woman with ointment is Mary.

It does not however say that the woman in adultery was Mary. Mel Gibson's movie "The Passion" says that...[/quote]

Thanks, I didn't know that!

[StColette]

TTM is correct, The Gospel does not mention Mary Magdalen at all in reference to the woman caught in adultery. She is referenced in Luke 2:8 as the woman who had seven demons cast out of her.

[CoffeeCatholic]

1st 2 definitely, with a probably on number 3.

She is my patron, after all.

[the lords sheep]

Don't forget that she was the one of the first to see the Risen Christ.
See: Lk 24 1-10 and Mt 28: 1-2

[Seven77]

I believe she is 1 and 2...not sure about 3.

[Resurrexi]

Yeah I've always wondered how she was the woman caught in adultery. I mean, it would seem odd if she were caught in adultery after seven demons had been cast out of her by Christ...

Edited April 23, 2009 by Resurrexi