eagle_eye222001 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 So today a bible preacher came down and was preaching near one of the main buildings. Pretty much your stereotypical expectations. A man who is Sola Scriptura, and randomly points at people and say they are going to hell. He called Obama the devil......the pope as the anti-christ. People who listen to anything but gospel music or going to hell. People who give any credit to evolution are opening their minds to satanic lies......the king James version is the only good version ...etc... So yeah.......as he goes through comments like this, students throw out questions and comments trying to discredit him. Most of them are doing a horrible job at it and don't know how to properly undermine someone of this nature. Most of the student questions are like "what about dinosaurs?" or they ask him where he got his theology degree. Anyway so far I've been pretty bored. Finally some students wise up and start questionging how does he know what the Bible is composed of......basically questioning the authority of the bible.........and they guy cops out by calling us satanist for questioning the Lord's Word. So yeah....you can see this is a very logical debate going on. The problem is that he could choose what questions to pursue and what to ignore or change. Since people kept shouting stuff out, I stood silent waiting for a good opportunity. So I'm standing there listening to him rant on.....kinda bored......he cites vague scripture passages that really don't carry much meaning in of themselves but he gives the most honor he can.....anyway, a guy next to me.....a Catholic starts to engage him. The preacher guy states that he and this Catholic kid serve two vastly different Jesus's. The preacher asks the Catholic kid how is Catholocism so different from being a believer of Christ. ...... anyway the kid mistakenly points out that he has received the sacraments and he goes through them......at this point I know the kid is already sunk. I'm thinking he should have started on Apostolic Authority and the idea that Christ founded a Church versus the Protestant man-made doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. So the kid explains his sacraments and then they preacher seizes the opportunity and shoots the first torpedo. He points to his giant sign that lists like 7 sins and asks the kid if he sins.....of course the kid says yes......and then the preacher goes on a mini-rampage on how being Catholic has not really set him free and then he claims that he is free from sin Of course the kid knows absolutely no bible versus and the preacher cites this one and then another. Okay, so the kid is determined that he's going to save this....so he tries to change the argument to that all are sinners but doesn't get anywhere. The preacher goes on to mock the Catholic church for teaching that you can work your way to heaven....that we worship Mary......all the normal misconceptions are there and then of course he gets in the "you shall call no man father." So the preacher goes through all this and the kid has good spirit and keeps going but he doesn't know how to properly defend any of these and keeps getting bowled over. I try to interject a couple times but both the preacher and the kid are so engrossed with each other that I was ignored. This went on for like 30 minutes or so before the kid claimed he had class. At this point I had heard all I wanted to hear so I left and encouraged the now very discouraged kid that catholic.com was a good website to help defend the faith. That was kinda exciting. I kinda wished I could have been the one debating the guy......I'm sure the preacher would have ignored logic and my arguments, however I would have given a better public defense of the Catholicism than this guy did. It was kinda bittersweet because when I left the preacher to encourage the discouraged kid, I informed him about the Newman Center........very ironic......as I am currently very ticked off with a majority of the people there. So it was kinda entertaining, but once the Catholic kid tried to make a stance...it was sad to see the preacher walk all over him. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/lifehouse/track/everything"]Lifehouse - Everything[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Was his name Jed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizz_loves_jesus Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Oh man, I know how you feel. A bunch of fundamentalists had a good Catholic-bashing today in geometry. It pretty much sucked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Man are these kind of arguers a pain. How many of them even take the time to study what catholicism actually believes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Try the talking stain approach. Check it out on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Man, wish I'd been there. I would have loved to talk to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1844637' date='Apr 23 2009, 04:45 PM']Was his name Jed?[/quote] No, he went by brother Matt. [quote name='tinytherese' post='1844668' date='Apr 23 2009, 04:55 PM']Man are these kind of arguers a pain. How many of them even take the time to study what catholicism actually believes?[/quote] Well the Catholic kid I think recently just came back into the faith. However he needs to study the basics still. [quote name='Winchester' post='1844687' date='Apr 23 2009, 05:07 PM']Try the talking stain approach. Check it out on youtube.[/quote] What? Okay. [quote name='thessalonian' post='1844733' date='Apr 23 2009, 05:26 PM']Man, wish I'd been there. I would have loved to talk to him.[/quote] So would I. However so many people get just throwing words out it was kinda hard to stay on topic and when he got in the debate with the Catholic kid.......no one else existed. And I along with others got to watch the kid sink. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/matchbox+twenty/track/bed+of+lies"]Matchbox Twenty - Bed of Lies[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Yeah, I miss these guys. If you can really throw logic at them they eventually break down and just start screaming "satan" at you. I used to debate them at GVSU back when I was a baptist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1844637' date='Apr 23 2009, 04:45 PM']Was his name Jed?[/quote] Sounds like Brother Jim and Sister Pat who came to my college 22 years ago. When they didn't like what someone was saying, they would draw a big X in the air over then and make sort of a zipping sound. That was how we knew when our turn was over. Of course, everyone started making the Xs as well.... Bad news was that the school newspaper had a big photo on the front page... with the campus clock in the background and ME standing next to my friend (who was talking to Brother Jim at the time)... Unfortunately, I was skipping Western Civ at the time (the ONLY time I deliberately skipped a class). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1844758' date='Apr 23 2009, 05:38 PM']Well the Catholic kid I think recently just came back into the faith. However he needs to study the basics still.[/quote] I actually meant the bible preacher not doing his homework on what the Church actually believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Why didn't you help him out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I can see why he didn't. I mean some people are honestly bad to reason with. Some are just so thick headed and set in their ways that even Karl Keating would get splattered. I was once in an online debate leaving comments on someone's youtube video and it was a really hard experience on me. They disregarded everything that I said and basically thought, "You are Catholic and I hate Catholics. You could not possibly have anything of value to say so I will disregard anything that you give me. So just BUZZ OFF." He used obscene language towards me, the Church, the priesthood, and Jesus Himself. I can't even write the outright offensive stuff that he said on here. They were that bad. Seriously, mean with a capital m. He wasn't the slightest bit open to what I had to say and was just a totally bitter athiest. I had never been treated so rudely in my life. It got really bad and after awhile I just left because this "debate" was going absolutely nowhere. I stayed longer than I should have in there, he was really egging me on, but I am glad that I just quit replying to what he and someone else were saying. It turns out that the other guy that joined in was simply playing devil's advocate but sent me a PM over youtube saying that he was sorry since he could tell that he seemed to go too far, making it look like he was jabbing me into a corner with a sword expecting me to give him the answers that he wanted. What I like about phatmass is that we are allowed to give longer responses than 500 characters. It ticked me off because what they were asking for required a lot more than that. I also like that on phatmass that there are actually mods to help out in ugly situations like these. Nobody was checking in to see how people were responding to one another and nobody was given any warnings or got banned and their nasty comments never got edited or deleted. Nobody with authority saying, "Ahem, please use charity." So thank you for all that you do mods and thank you dUSt for letting there be mods on here. I shaken from that experience, (though thankfully not for that long.) I started praying for the two that I had been debating with, especially the first one who was a heck of a lot more rude than the second. (I'm praying for Jack Chick too.) According to St. Augustine, without the prayers of St. Stephen when he was praying for his persecutors, than we wouldn't have St. Paul. Just look at how many great things that this former big time persecutor who brought Christians to death and attempted to bring even more back to Jerusalem in chains torturing them before bringing them to death did once he converted! One of the greatest missionaries of all time, a major theologian in history, greatly contributing to sacred scripture, and a martyr. Talk about a total turn around!!! So it seems that the answer here is prayer to winning converts. I don't think that we give it enough credit. St. Monica sure gave it a whole lot of credit. That's what brought about her son St. Augustine's conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) I got into it with a preacher like this before. He was a baptist and he had his cool little display set up downtown on a college campus on a friday night. He had his poster representen just like jon hagee and it was the typical revelation poster with the catholic church depicted as the whore of babylon. He was stopping everyone that walked by. I mean you cant fault him because he's on fire for God and thinks he's doing the Lords work. Anyhow I had a nice buzz going and I start to talk to him and throw the eat my flesh and drink my blood verse at him. He comes back with some stuff and I really dont remember what it was. I then hit him with the how can the once saved always saved be correct ? I thought I made good points since one of his arguments was that it was a horrible sin to smoke or drink. I asked well If I get saved the way you tell me to and then go get drunk the rest of my life and sleep with a bunch of different girls how can I expect to go to heaven if I die in that state ? He really didnt have an answer but yet he sorta came at me with a judgemental tone since he was the one preachen and I was the one drinking and going to the bars with friends. Sorta like the i'm right you're wrong look at my cool revelation poster what dont you understand??? Finally I got so upset I wanted to punch him but I just walked away and got my sip on. The irony is if I wouldn't of got drunk that night I would of been in Gods will while he would of been out of it. Me = hanging with friends, drinking being joyfull / Him = bearing false witness perscuting while also pushing a once saved always saved doctrine. But I blew it by getting drunk so I guess we both failed. Edited April 24, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 [quote name='tinytherese' post='1845333' date='Apr 23 2009, 09:52 PM']I actually meant the bible preacher not doing his homework on what the Church actually believes.[/quote] Oh, sorry.....I see. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/matt+maher/track/resurrection+day"]Matt Maher - Resurrection Day[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] [quote name='MissyP89' post='1845668' date='Apr 24 2009, 01:05 AM']Why didn't you help him out? [/quote] I tried. Both he and the preacher guy were so engrossed in their debate that they weren't paying any attention to anyone else. I tried to interject a few times but when it became apparent, he wasn't paying attention, I just continued to sit quietly and watch the Catholic defense get blown to bits. When the Catholic guy left for class, I followed him and encouraged him to check out catholic.com . I figured that was the best I could do for that moment. [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1845744' date='Apr 24 2009, 05:05 AM']I got into it with a preacher like this before. He was a baptist and he had his cool little display set up downtown on a college campus on a friday night. He had his poster representen just like jon hagee and it was the typical revelation poster with the catholic church depicted as the whore of babylon. He was stopping everyone that walked by. I mean you cant fault him because he's on fire for God and thinks he's doing the Lords work. Anyhow I had a nice buzz going and I start to talk to him and throw the eat my flesh and drink my blood verse at him. He comes back with some stuff and I really dont remember what it was. I then hit him with the how can the once saved always saved be correct ? I thought I made good points since one of his arguments was that it was a horrible sin to smoke or drink. I asked well If I get saved the way you tell me to and then go get drunk the rest of my life and sleep with a bunch of different girls how can I expect to go to heaven if I die in that state ? He really didnt have an answer but yet he sorta came at me with a judgemental tone since he was the one preachen and I was the one drinking and going to the bars with friends. Sorta like the i'm right you're wrong look at my cool revelation poster what dont you understand??? Finally I got so upset I wanted to punch him but I just walked away and got my sip on. The irony is if I wouldn't of got drunk that night I would of been in Gods will while he would of been out of it. Me = hanging with friends, drinking being joyfull / Him = bearing false witness perscuting while also pushing a once saved always saved doctrine. But I blew it by getting drunk so I guess we both failed.[/quote] Yeah....when the preacher was asked legitimate questions, he skirted around them. Since he was the loud one and the other students kept throwing stuff out, it was downright impossible to have a real debate. You try to debate but sometimes people don't want to listen and you can't do much at that point except point out that since they are not listening to you, it's pointless to continue and encourage them to check out catholic.com and then leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAltareDei Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I remember a discussion that happened a few months ago in my "Religion and Society" class girl: I used to be a Catholic. But then I realised they weren't really Christian so left and joined hillsong (think, evangelical mega church). me: Really. Who founded hillsong and when? girl: (name) and his wife founded it around 10 years ago. What about your Church? me: Jesus Christ, 2000 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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