Kafka And Hassan's Awesome Thread

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='kafka' post='1863019' date='May 9 2009, 06:20 PM'][/quote]



[quote]

tis the nature of the leviathon.

[/quote]

Oh, little kafka... come back to the good side.

[kafka]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1863030' date='May 9 2009, 06:31 PM']Oh, little kafka... come back to the good side. [/quote]
I am my own side.

anyhow the word of the day so far is:

skylarking: To play actively and boisterously; frolic.

I wonder if anyone uses this verb anymore?

[Hassan]

[quote name='kafka' post='1862262' date='May 9 2009, 12:27 AM']Hi Hassan I look forward to discussing all the important issues which may come up in such a thread, and I hope others could participate as you suggested.

First I want to express that it is not as if I personally want to save your immortal soul in some explicit or obtrusive way. That is something personal and intimate between you and the absolute mystery we call God. You are on your own journey unto the end, and that is God's self-communication, His Will, and His Providence working in seemless ways beyond me.[/quote]


k

[quote]A few months back I saw some of your posts and I was struck by how you saw through a lot of the naivete and what Rahner would call mythology in people's understanding of the Church, religion, theology and philosophy. I thought this was a good thing, and I generally thought you made some good points, so I thought I might offer myself and my understanding to you in a sort of openness which might benefit you in some way, since you seem to be in search of something.[/quote]


What do you mean

[quote]I thought I could offer some of my own unique views of theology coming from a viewpoint one doesnt usually encounter in mainstream Catholicism. I also think I could learn from you, and engage in a good logical discussion, since I see some great potential in your mind. I also see a bit of myself in you, and thought you might benefit from some of my experiences.

All this may be wishful thinking on my part but still a good solid dialogue with mutual respect and good ideas being thrown out in the open without prejudice or pettiness, etc. would be beneficial to me, hopefully you, and perhaps to others. Plus I am always up for a challenge a bit of strenuous thinking apart from my normal circle of contacts.

I also want to thank you for sharing that Hubert Dreyfus talk in the other thread. It lead me to find a series of his Berkley lectures called Man, God and Society in Western Literature. I skipped ahead to the Moby D ick audi and he comes up with some good insights (I think I have two more to go). I like to read Moby D ick once every few years since it is so rich and of course considered the greatest American novel so maybe some of the things I read will seep into this thread. After that I will move on to Dreyfus' Heidegger lectures. You probably already get the sense that I am more interested in continental philosophy right now, though I in no way reject analytic philosophy.

Same idea with 'ascending' and 'descending' theology. I'm not sure if those terms mean anything to you but I prefer 'ascending' theology at this time yet I dont reject a 'descending' theology.

I am also re-reading 'Foundations of Christian Faith' by Karl Rahner, 'Divine Mercy in My Soul' by St Faustina (Helen Kowalski), as well as perusing Rahner's 'Theological Investigations'

Maybe I am reading some other things but cant remember right now. Oh yes, a section of 'Divine Mileau' by Teilhard de Chardin.

Anyhow for now I dont know how to start so I'll leave it at that for now.[/quote]


Interesting.

I'm interested in Al Ghazali's thought right now. Ghazali is an interesting figure to me. Although he's seen as the shining example of rigid orthodoxy he's actually a much more complex figure. I'm also interested in Shihab al-Din Suhrawardi. I've become interested in Heidegger, and through that found a good deal of Shia philosophy actually wresteled with the idea of being, which I find interesting.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1862440' date='May 9 2009, 03:06 AM']oh no... it has already been started.

i have given this thread one star. i would have given it no stars, but then I wouldn't have effected the star rating thing.[/quote]




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Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/lifehouse/track/hanging+by+a+moment"]Lifehouse - Hanging By a Moment[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]

[kafka]

Today I read Psalm 38 (39) and a few things about it struck me:

{38:1} Unto the end. For Jeduthun himself. A Canticle of David.

~ basically 'unto the end' I intrpret as one's life journey, and the themes of psalms inscripted 'unto the end' are ones which man is continually faced with before the end of his journey, death in which the journey is finalized and made definitive.

There is an interesting parallel between verses six and eight:

{38:6} Behold, you have made my days measurable, [b]and, before you, my substance is as nothing.[/b] Yet truly, all things are vanity: every living man.

~ Now man is vain and nothing not in the sense that he is non-existant or without value. It is self-evident that man exists and that he is important. However man is nothing in the sense that he did not will himself into existance. And his days are measured toward a finality, namely: death after which he is no longer at his own disposal. Therefore in and of himself man is nothing and vain. In and of himself he is powerless. He is finite. This points to something or some meaning beyond himself without which he loses something of his essence or value. There seems to be a real problem here, and David expresses this in Psalm eight by asking questions.

{38:8} And now, what is it that awaits me? Is it not the Lord? [b]And my substance is with you.[/b]

'my substance is as nothing'

'and my substance is with you.'

See the parallel. 'My substance is with you,' I would interpret as referring to the mode of justifying grace in which God continually communicates Himself to the essence of man while remaining radically distinct and seperate. The acceptance of God's self-communication is the mode of justifying grace. A quality of being whereby God continually moves and effects man in a way that is really for the most part non-reflexive in the individual. Although man is finite and powerless and meaningless in and of himself, God is continually with Him in the depth of his being and so the Infinite God is the source of man's power, and meaning and fullness of existance.

How is God's offer accepted? I really dont want to go into now but David prays for it in the ensuing verses of the Psalm.

I also thought verse thirteen is intriguing when he says "For I am a newcomer with you, and a sojourner, just as all my fathers were." I'm not sure yet what exactly that means since it is sort of paradoxical, but I have a few ideas.


Thoughts anyone? I dont mind if one points out where I may have slipped up, since I'm not teaching anyone, just sharing my ideas.

[kafka]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1863228' date='May 9 2009, 10:50 PM']What do you mean

Interesting.

I'm interested in Al Ghazali's thought right now. Ghazali is an interesting figure to me. Although he's seen as the shining example of rigid orthodoxy he's actually a much more complex figure. I'm also interested in Shihab al-Din Suhrawardi. I've become interested in Heidegger, and through that found a good deal of Shia philosophy actually wresteled with the idea of being, which I find interesting.[/quote]
mean by what?

I will have to look up Ghazali and Suhrawardi. I've never heard of them.

I think its natural for any serious thinker or everyone for that matter to wrestle with the idea of being or original experience unless he fails to recognize its importance, or perhaps suppresses it, or perhaps cannot bring it into expression.

[kafka]

[quote name='kafka' post='1863340' date='May 10 2009, 12:44 AM']mean by what?

I will have to look up Ghazali and Suhrawardi. I've never heard of them.

I think its natural for any serious thinker or everyone for that matter to wrestle with the idea of being or original experience unless he fails to recognize its importance, or perhaps suppresses it, or perhaps cannot bring it into expression.[/quote]
So Ghazali and Suhrawardi were Persian philsophers/theologians during the Middle Ages.

Basically:
Ghazali's thought founded occasionalism.
Suhrawardi founded the School of Illumination

I just did a quick scan of their articles. Looks like Ghazali may have even influenced Aquinas in some way. Interesting. Look forward to hearing more about their thoughts if you have the chance.

[kafka]

I just re-read the sub-section titled 'Man's Place in the Cosmos' in the Chapter on Christology of Rahner's Foundations of C.F. It is mind-boggling power. At the same time logical and hard to refute in its own way. I dont even know how one could come up with something like this. He does a summary of the whole past, present and future of the cosmos from a Christian as well as philosophical and even scientific point of view in one three page sweeping stroke of brilliance.

One of the best sequences of the whole book and maybe one of the best sequences of theology I've read. The problem is that it is a bit difficult and has to be read in context to the rest of the book, since he uses some of his own terms and incorporates ideas he develops much earlier in the text. It cannot be read on its own.

Still-it is pure awesomeness!!! And well worth the effort.

Edited May 10, 2009 by kafka

[Winchester]

[mod] excessive snark--notardillacid[/mod]

Edited May 10, 2009 by Winchester

[kafka]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1863681' date='May 10 2009, 06:33 PM'][mod] excessive snark--notardillacid[/mod][/quote]
I guess I may have posted something that didnt sit well with Winnie.

Edited May 11, 2009 by kafka

[kafka]

Word of the day:

Monad: in philosophy the term can be used as any basic metaphysical entity, esp. having an autonomous life, like an angel.

Quote of the day from Moby Johnsonville brat describes New Bedford in the mid 1800s:

"In summer time, the town is sweet to see; full of fine maples-long avenues of green and gold. And in August, high in air, the beautiful and bountiful horse-chestnuts, candelabra-wise, proffer the passer-by their tapering upright cones of congregated blossoms. So omnipotent is art; which in many a district of New Bedford has superinduced bright terraces of flowers upon the barren refuse rocks thrown aside at creation's final day."

Yeah Melville was raving mad in the most un-pejorative way.


This thread is turning into a monologue.

Edited May 11, 2009 by kafka

[TotusTuusMaria]

i told you.



talk about elmo and the ratings and pages will soar.