Rules And Rituals Getting In The Way Of One's Faith

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1862832' date='May 9 2009, 02:32 PM']So...she needs holy water, but does not want to have to get a priest involved.



Is she bootlegging it or is she intending to start a freelance vampire-hunting business?[/quote]

I have no clue what she was going to do with the holy water. She has an interesting personality, so who other than God knows what she wanted to do with it?

[puellapaschalis]

I find this really tough to describe, but I consider the rituals essential. Certainly the Sacraments are essential because they make a factual reality of the bestowing of grace present (which is pretty mind-boggling if you think about it), but even the smallest ritual and sacramental that I use (and I use pretty much all the ones I've been taughter) has an essential place in the development and growth of my faith.

Which is not to say that it replaces the non-ritual side of things - the impulsive prayers during the day, for example. But it's a bit like a forensic reconstructionist. You're given bones, a skeleton, or a skull, and you build up flesh around it, and it becomes a real, living, vibrant person. Only a forensic chap can only go so far as using clay to produce a photo for id, right - but given the starting point, [i]we[/i], with God's grace, take up the rituals and they become central to our very lives.

If that made sense.

[tinytherese]

I wonder what my friend thinks of The Ten Commandments.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1863051' date='May 9 2009, 11:45 PM']When people go on these arguments of "personal relationship" with the implication that religion, dogmas, and doctrine hinder their faith, they are basically arguing that they want to worship God as they want God to be and not what he is.

If this freelance worship worked....then truth is relative and pinning absolutes becomes impossible. Basically these people want it to become a free for all and they assume that it's all acceptable.

While rituals and tradition and Tradition seem to get in the way sometimes, they are what keep the faith as it is, and protect us from inventing a new faith.

----------------
Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/story+of+the+year/track/message+to+the+world"]Story Of The Year - Message To The World[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url][/quote]
Generally agreed. I've noticed a lot of those I know (and I catch myself doing this, too) making statements about religion using "I". What do [i]I[/i] like/want/think? Then it dawned on me - shouldn't we be doing what [i]God [/i]wants/likes/instructs? And while He does want a personal relationship, He also established a Church, and the Church has rules. I think some people get irritated that they can't just be independent in their pursuit of God. I understand the temptation to do so, though.

[MStar]

Thanks for clarifying eagle_eye, I see what you're saying, and I agree, people shouldn't ignore the Church's teachings and explanations about things based on feeling.

I realize that God has established a Church with rules, but I guess (for myself, I wouldn't apply this to someone else) when it comes to sacramentals I worry about using them like charms. I don't want to fall into a place where I think God cannot or will not work unless I have holy water, a crucifix, and have been wearing my scapular. (again, I'm not accusing anyone on here of doing this, it's something that I feel I could be in danger of doing if I allowed myself to.)

[quote]I find this really tough to describe, but I consider the rituals essential. Certainly the Sacraments are essential because they make a factual reality of the bestowing of grace present (which is pretty mind-boggling if you think about it), but even the smallest ritual and sacramental that I use (and I use pretty much all the ones I've been taughter) has an essential place in the development and growth of my faith.[/quote]

That's really cool that they help you so much! Possibly I don't have a good grasp on them. My mom would put blessed salt over our doorways and made us all wear scapulars (even though we didn't do the prayers that go with being enrolled) and other little things that I've found to appear rather charm-ish (but I don't think she meant them in that way at all). I mean, if it boosts you're faith, sweet! But I don't do much with them for myself. Don't know if that's bad or not...?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MStar' post='1863411' date='May 10 2009, 04:46 AM']Thanks for clarifying eagle_eye, I see what you're saying, and I agree, people shouldn't ignore the Church's teachings and explanations about things based on feeling.

I realize that God has established a Church with rules, but I guess (for myself, I wouldn't apply this to someone else) when it comes to sacramentals I worry about using them like charms. I don't want to fall into a place where I think God cannot or will not work unless I have holy water, a crucifix, and have been wearing my scapular. (again, I'm not accusing anyone on here of doing this, it's something that I feel I could be in danger of doing if I allowed myself to.)



That's really cool that they help you so much! Possibly I don't have a good grasp on them. My mom would put blessed salt over our doorways and made us all wear scapulars (even though we didn't do the prayers that go with being enrolled) and other little things that I've found to appear rather charm-ish (but I don't think she meant them in that way at all). I mean, if it boosts you're faith, sweet! But I don't do much with them for myself. Don't know if that's bad or not...? [/quote]
I think its important to do some of these things because it connects your daily life to the reality of the life beyond. Conrete reminders that this is a jouney, not an end point.

[Guest KevinSymonds]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1862395' date='May 9 2009, 02:45 AM']So one of my friends brought up that she wanted to make holy water and asked me how you go about doing that. I said that you need water ( ) and a priest to bless it. She responded how she didn't like how Christianity had rules and rituals like that. I asked what was so hard about just going to a priest and asking him to bless water would be. Heck it only takes moments to do. (I didn't say this in a mean way.) She said that it was still too much for her. (I'm not sure why totally.) She also said that in some areas of her country there are areas where there are no priests for one to get to and she appeared to be implying that priests are unnecessary for one's faith. It's just an external. I told how rules play such a significant role in our lives by bring up the examples of how rules are at our school and on the road for driving. She said that she understood that but didn't know how to describe how she could reason her beliefs regarding practicing her faith. It seemed to at least to get her thinking. She stressed how one she had a personal relationship with Our Lord (and I informed her that I did too.)

So I thought that this would be a good topic for the phamily to discuss when people bring up stuff like this.[/quote]



Sorry, your friend sounds like a lazy minimalist. That's not a personal judgment, but from your description, it's an observation.

[tinytherese]

Oh and I forgot to add that she concluded that to make water holy water that all you really need to do is pray for it to be holy because you need faith in order for stuff like that to happen and also that the bible tells us that God will give us whatever we ask of Him.

[Guest KevinSymonds]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1864065' date='May 11 2009, 02:42 AM']Oh and I forgot to add that she concluded that to make water holy water that all you really need to do is pray for it to be holy because you need faith in order for stuff like that to happen and also that the bible tells us that God will give us whatever we ask of Him.

[/quote]

That't about as close to paganism you can get without crossing the line.

I'm reminded of the scene from the movie "Robin Hood: Men In Tights"

[b]Rabbi Tuckman[/b]: "[i]Wait! There's birds, there's trees here...Come on! We'll bless them all until we get versnicket, join me[/i]!"

[b]Everyone[/b]: "[i]YAY![/i]!"

[b]Robin Hood[/b]: "[i]THREE CHEERS FOR THE RABBI[/i]!!!"

-KJS

I think "versnicket" means drunk.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1864065' date='May 11 2009, 02:42 AM']Oh and I forgot to add that she concluded that to make water holy water that all you really need to do is pray for it to be holy because you need faith in order for stuff like that to happen and also that the bible tells us that God will give us whatever we ask of Him.

[/quote]

Probably thinking of Matthew 7:7-8

[i]7 Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you. 8 For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.[/i]

We all know what happens when you listen to one verse literally and ignore everything else and believe in Sola Scriptura.

----------------
Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/matt+maher/track/leave+a+light+on"]Matt Maher - Leave A Light On[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]

[tinytherese]

[quote name='KevinSymonds' post='1864285' date='May 11 2009, 04:02 PM']That't about as close to paganism you can get without crossing the line.

I'm reminded of the scene from the movie "Robin Hood: Men In Tights"

[b]Rabbi Tuckman[/b]: "[i]Wait! There's birds, there's trees here...Come on! We'll bless them all until we get versnicket, join me[/i]!"

[b]Everyone[/b]: "[i]YAY![/i]!"

[b]Robin Hood[/b]: "[i]THREE CHEERS FOR THE RABBI[/i]!!!"

-KJS

I think "versnicket" means drunk.[/quote]


That movie so funny!