Usscb Liturgest Suggests Groom And Bride Both Walk Down Aisle

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1863466' date='May 10 2009, 08:53 AM']You mentioned no vows. Then...when/how is the 'mutual consent' given?[/quote]
It is presumed, although at the betrothal ceremony the priest can ask the couple if they come willingly, but asking that question is not a formal part of the betrothal ceremony.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1863466' date='May 10 2009, 08:53 AM']Okay, thanks. That threw me for a minute, but I didn't think we would disagree on something so major as that! I like the understanding of the West that the bride and the groom are the ministers of the sacrament.

Here is what the Catechism has to say:

[quote]In the Latin Rite the celebration of marriage between two Catholic faithful normally takes place during Holy Mass, because of the connection of all the sacraments with the Paschal mystery of Christ. In the Eucharist the memorial of the New Covenant is realized, the New Covenant in which Christ has united himself for ever to the Church, his beloved bride for whom he gave himself up. It is therefore fitting that the spouses should seal their consent to give themselves to each other through the offering of their own lives by uniting it to the offering of Christ for his Church made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice, and by receiving the Eucharist so that, communicating in the same Body and the same Blood of Christ, they may form but "one body" in Christ.

"Inasmuch as it is a sacramental action of sanctification, the liturgical celebration of marriage . . . must be, per se, valid, worthy, and fruitful." It is therefore appropriate for the bride and groom to prepare themselves for the celebration of their marriage by receiving the sacrament of penance.

According to Latin tradition, the spouses as ministers of Christ's grace mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church. In the tradition of the Eastern Churches, the priests (bishops or presbyters) are witnesses to the mutual consent given by the spouses, but for the validity of the sacrament their blessing is also necessary.

The various liturgies abound in prayers of blessing and epiclesis asking God's grace and blessing on the new couple, especially the bride. In the epiclesis of this sacrament the spouses receive the Holy Spirit as the communion of love of Christ and the Church. The Holy Spirit is the seal of their covenant, the ever available source of their love and the strength to renew their fidelity. Para 1621-4[/quote][/quote]
The Latin Church's new catechism tries to interpret the Eastern tradition on marriage according to its own late medieval presuppositions. That said, the East does not view the bishop or priest (deacons cannot celebrate the mystery of crowning) as witnesses, but as the true ministers of the mystery (i.e., the sacrament), while the whole Church (i.e., all the assembled faithful) are witnesses to the sacred event.

[Luigi]

The father of the bride giving the bride away to the husband is a tradition from pre-Christian Roman times. A woman lived in her father's house until such time as she lived in her husband's house; her father "gave" her to her husband. In Roman culture, a woman was always under the protection/supervision of a man, just as in Jewish culture which is why Jesus "gave" Mary to St. John during the crucifixion. A woman without a man had no visibile means of support, which is why widows are always mentioned in the Bible as worthy objects of charity.

Other marriage customs date back to the Romans as well. People wear their wedding rings on the fourth finger because the Romans thought a vein ran straight from that finger to the heart; putting a ring on that finger symbolized controlling/limiting the emotions. A man carries a woman over the threshold into their house (if anyone still does that) because the Roman men raided the Sabine towns and stole Sabine women to be their brides (It's called "The Rape of the Sabine Women" and it's been the subject of many classic paintings).

My friends who got married like forty years ago or something had their families walk them down the aisle - mother, father, brothers & sisters with the groom, then the family went & sat down while the groom stopped at the bottom step of the sanctuary; then the bride came down with her whole family, she took his hand, her family went & sat down, and the wedding couple walked up the steps to the altar under their own steam. And that was a long time ago!

The whole wedding ritual (the cultural parts, not the Church parts) is pretty bizarre when you analyze it - it's more like a fashion show than a sacrament. Inculturation is fine, but I do think people should know what symbolizes what and then decide if they want to express that symbolism or not.

[Maggyie]

With wedding season getting underway there will be lots of examples to look at! The "giving the bride away" custom is NOT a part of the Roman rite (check the books!) and was developed by a culture that considered marriage a property transfer. I love my dad but if I ever get married I would like to keep the whole "woman as chattel" notion out of my wedding day

Just having dad walk you down the aisle isn't quite as bad as him actually having that little exchange with the priest, "who gives this woman?" "I do," which again seems to me to make the rite like taking delivery from the UPS man. Cringe cringe cringe. The bride is supposed to be giving [i]herself [/i]to her husband, dad can't do it for her! The parents really don't have any role in this sacrament although of course it's wonderful if they and the rest of the families can be there to celebrate with the two people getting married.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1863576' date='May 10 2009, 03:01 PM']With wedding season getting underway there will be lots of examples to look at! The "giving the bride away" custom is NOT a part of the Roman rite (check the books!) and was developed by a culture that considered marriage a property transfer. I love my dad but if I ever get married I would like to keep the whole "woman as chattel" notion out of my wedding day

Just having dad walk you down the aisle isn't quite as bad as him actually having that little exchange with the priest, "who gives this woman?" "I do," which again seems to me to make the rite like taking delivery from the UPS man. Cringe cringe cringe. The bride is supposed to be giving [i]herself [/i]to her husband, dad can't do it for her! The parents really don't have any role in this sacrament although of course it's wonderful if they and the rest of the families can be there to celebrate with the two people getting married.[/quote]
Catholic girls are never "given away" by their fathers, they are simply escorted.

[MissyP89]

So wait, it's not an abuse for the father/both parents to walk the bride down to the groom?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1863636' date='May 10 2009, 05:39 PM']So wait, it's not an abuse for the father/both parents to walk the bride down to the groom?[/quote]
Why would it ever be an abuse? How you get down the aisle is your business

[MissyP89]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1863638' date='May 10 2009, 04:42 PM']Why would it ever be an abuse? How you get down the aisle is your business [/quote]

Thought so! It's just that when people were saying it's not in the rubrics, I thought they meant that it was forbidden or shouldn't happen. Thanks, cmom!

Edited May 10, 2009 by MissyP89

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1863639' date='May 10 2009, 05:43 PM']Thought so! It's just that when people were saying it's not in the rubrics, I thought they meant that it was forbidden or shouldn't happen. Thanks, cmom![/quote]

The rubics concern the Mass, not how the bride gets down the aisle.

[CatherineM]

My father in law walked me down the aisle. He's the only member of my husband's family that approved of me. My father died while I was still in school. My father in law didn't want me to feel quite so alone since none of my family or friends were able to or willing to come up here. He said that it was his honor to fill in for a fallen comrade.

[Socrates]

Yes, we need the USCCB to ensure we're all politically correct.


Sheesh.

[Sarah_JC]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1863450' date='May 10 2009, 08:40 AM']Then you miss one of the best possible wedding day moments - when your groom sees you for the first time in your dress as you walk down the aisle. That is priceless.
Important moments in life are best when accompanied by pomp and circumstance. It has nothing to do with being protestant. And its not about a makeover reveal - its you coming to the sacrament appropiated attired in your best -whether its a simple suit or an elaborate gown and processing into the church with your attendants where you meet your intended.[/quote]

I'm glad you experienced a moment you felt was the "one of the best possible wedding day moments".

I agree with dressing appropriate for the sacrament, though I often sigh for the blue dress or grey suit I wanted... I guess my white dress is good enough. It's a nice style. Sometimes we have to make compromises. People just didn't get the point of what I was trying to do. They got a different message, one I didn't want to send.

I suspect you dreamed about that moment when you were a little girl. (I could be wrong.) At any rate, I imagine you knew it was important to you before the wedding.

Well, I dreamed of walking down the aisle together. I remember the first time I heard of the bride and groom walking together. I would not want to lose the feeling of his hand squeezing mine, and the sound of his whisper as we stand at the front of the church preparing to walk down the aisle. That last silent moment before the organ begins. IMHO, The most important moments come in stillness, and in quiet.


Wow... thank you. I hadn't really though of this, and was having such a crumby day sulking about all my compromises. I forgot I got to have this little bit of my dream wedding. I'm in a much better mood.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1863802' date='May 10 2009, 09:16 PM']Yes, we need the USCCB to ensure we're all politically correct.


Sheesh. [/quote]
wha?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Sarah_JC' post='1863910' date='May 11 2009, 04:33 AM']I'm glad you experienced a moment you felt was the "one of the best possible wedding day moments".

I agree with dressing appropriate for the sacrament, though I often sigh for the blue dress or grey suit I wanted... I guess my white dress is good enough. It's a nice style. Sometimes we have to make compromises. People just didn't get the point of what I was trying to do. They got a different message, one I didn't want to send.

I suspect you dreamed about that moment when you were a little girl. (I could be wrong.) At any rate, I imagine you knew it was important to you before the wedding.

Well, I dreamed of walking down the aisle together. I remember the first time I heard of the bride and groom walking together. I would not want to lose the feeling of his hand squeezing mine, and the sound of his whisper as we stand at the front of the church preparing to walk down the aisle. That last silent moment before the organ begins. IMHO, The most important moments come in stillness, and in quiet.


Wow... thank you. I hadn't really though of this, and was having such a crumby day sulking about all my compromises. I forgot I got to have this little bit of my dream wedding. I'm in a much better mood. [/quote]
Beautiful.

My best friend walked down with her groom. Though it wasn't a Catholic wedding. In fact, they eloped at Gretna Green, and my husband, son, and I were the witnesses.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Sarah_JC' post='1863910' date='May 11 2009, 12:33 AM']I'm glad you experienced a moment you felt was the "one of the best possible wedding day moments".

I agree with dressing appropriate for the sacrament, though I often sigh for the blue dress or grey suit I wanted... I guess my white dress is good enough. It's a nice style. Sometimes we have to make compromises. People just didn't get the point of what I was trying to do. They got a different message, one I didn't want to send.

I suspect you dreamed about that moment when you were a little girl. (I could be wrong.) At any rate, I imagine you knew it was important to you before the wedding.

Well, I dreamed of walking down the aisle together. I remember the first time I heard of the bride and groom walking together. I would not want to lose the feeling of his hand squeezing mine, and the sound of his whisper as we stand at the front of the church preparing to walk down the aisle. That last silent moment before the organ begins. IMHO, The most important moments come in stillness, and in quiet.


Wow... thank you. I hadn't really though of this, and was having such a crumby day sulking about all my compromises. I forgot I got to have this little bit of my dream wedding. I'm in a much better mood. [/quote]

I wasn't just thinking of my wedding. Sometimes I used to help out at weddings, being in the very last pew to get the bridesmaids to step off at the right time, signal the organist that the bride was ready etc, and I could see the grooms expression - they look stunned with delight.