These People Call Themselves Catholic!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1866745' date='May 13 2009, 11:00 PM']awww... don't get discouraged.

[/quote]
It's my mood lately. I'll bounce back in a few days or a week.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1866737' date='May 13 2009, 11:56 PM']She hasn't honestly pursued this to any extent. This is her faith. No matter what you believe, that's a core thing to a person. She's obviously not delved any deeper than superficial fluff, because in this subject her faith is about on par with that of a kid in grade seven.
Besides that, believing that sainthood is perfectly possible for any human being is central to how we conduct ourselves.[/quote]

She didn't say that that was the correct Church teaching or the way a Catholic ought to live, she was simply making a note of how she was taught to view them growing up.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1866769' date='May 13 2009, 11:12 PM']She didn't say that that was the correct Church teaching or the way a Catholic ought to live, she was simply making a note of how she was taught to view them growing up.[/quote]
She continually presents herself as a faithful Catholic, which objectively she is not. Her presentation is geared towards finding true humanity especially in light of social justice. If she's going to approach it in this way her thinking needs to radically shift. Otherwise she's just another humanist.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1866660' date='May 13 2009, 10:13 PM']Yes, she's saying that when she was gowing up that's how the saints were presented. Big deal.

They were presented to me in the same way. It's not a doctrinal claim, but a recounting of childhood religious formation and her perceptions and recollections during it. If you have a problem with it, blame the teachers, not those honestly saying the image or idea they were given.[/quote]
I think it is a big deal. She's not a child anymore. It's not uncommon for kids to get things wrong, and it's not always the teacher's or parent's fault. One mark of maturity is to reexamine those childhood lessons... she has chosen not to do so... and it's sad.

[Hassan]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1866798' date='May 13 2009, 11:26 PM']I think it is a big deal. She's not a child anymore. It's not uncommon for kids to get things wrong, and it's not always the teacher's or parent's fault. One mark of maturity is to reexamine those childhood lessons... she has chosen not to do so... and it's sad.[/quote]

When I was a very young child I believed that women simply woke up one day and were with child.

By me saying that am I making a claim about biology or simply recounting my view as a child?

That is what she is doing as far as I can tell.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1866823' date='May 13 2009, 11:43 PM']When I was a very young child I believed that women simply woke up one day and were with child.

By me saying that am I making a claim about biology or simply recounting my view as a child?

That is what she is doing as far as I can tell.[/quote]
The difference would be if you grew up, never particularly interested in biology, then started presenting yourself as someone very well acquainted with science, and still never bothered to fix your childish beliefs. Good analogy though. It's an accurate one.

[TotusTuusMaria]

If she would have spoken/written fairly then she would have acknowledged that what she was taught as a child was misguided. She is, despite that she is just recounting her childhood, giving off the impression that it is still the way things are viewed.

A number of us took it that way and considering there are some of us who do it is not doubtful that others who hold misguided views about the church would (since she is Catholic and that is what she was taught) believe that, truly, that is how Catholics believe about the saints.

[tinytherese]

Its sad how so many people don't advance beyond the elementary or even pre-school level of understanding the faith. I know a girl in her twenties who thought that when we sin that our prayers are blocked from God because of what we've done. Thankfully I cleared that one up for her.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

PAX,
Couldn't readall the posts,
I can't remember exactly where paul states this but he states 'brothers and sisters, saints and something, and something something. Yes possibly a saint is chosen by GOD and possibly no not everyone can be a saint, PRIDE might say we all can but maybe it isn't so, and yes some saints where sinners early on and some where angels,possibly some or <holds hands to mouth> are just christitians. Yes there are many different parts to the one body but where all christian saint or not... and yes im R.C and call myself a christiain.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Sure where called to imitate saints in ways, like say "contemplative prayer" and many other different spiritualities that the saints have come upon, but i believe GOD chooses saints, not the other way around but not in that we don't have to choose GOD lol.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' post='1866984' date='May 14 2009, 05:18 AM']... and yes im R.C and call myself a christiain.[/quote]

Well technically Catholicism are Christians too. (Sorry, just had to point that one out. It's a pet pieve of mine when people claim that Catholics are not Christians.)


A saint is someone who makes it to into heaven. It's just that not all of them are canonized. The ones that are are the ones that are officially recognized by the Church. It doesn't mean that those who do not get canonized are not holy. So God wants us all to be saints. Some of them are with a lower case "s" while others are called saints with a capital "S."

[ariaane]

Maria has come out and said that she’s a Cafeteria Catholic in a video. The way she said it makes it seem that she thinks it’s funny, so [i]I doubt t[/i]hat she [i]doesn’t[/i] know that she is not in full communion with Rome.

In the same video I saw about her professing her Cafeteria Catholic ways, she also endorsed abortion as well and makes it clear that she teaches her daughters that abortion is a valid option.

[ariaane]

Addendum:

My bad, I thought we were talking about Arnold schwarzenegger’s wife.

Just to add, there seems to be an army of famous female CINO’s.

[MithLuin]

[b]Hassan[/b], I agree that people can recount a childhood experience how it appeared to them.

It is frustrating to people, though, when an adult uses that childhood understanding to imply that that is all that was meant, and that the [i]other adults[/i] misssed the point.

I do not know how the saints were presented to her as a child. Certainly, reverence for them can make them larger-than-life. We've all seen religious artwork, so we know what she means by 'painted on the ceiling' and stained glass windows. But if you think of 'Lives of the Saints' written for children, the message is almost always 'we should live like that, too.' They are [i]very[/i] much presented as examples - exemplary examples, to be sure, but something to aspire to.

Few of us will grow up to be pro sports players or the President of the United States, but that doesn't mean such public figures are somehow locked away and unattainable. Many Catholic children want to grow up to be just like the saints, so even if she didn't get the impression that artwork applied to her life doesn't mean that [i]no one[/i] gets that.



Her point that heroic figures are living among us is well taken. It's a shame she wasn't introduced to one of these 'living saints' as a child. But her very condescending attitude towards the Catholic saints (as if they are irrelevant and their contributions meaningless because they are dead) naturally upsets people who understand why we actually do hold the saints in reverence. She makes it obvious that she missed the point, then dismisses the tradition - and suggests that only in casting off this baggage will people be able to see the 'real' point - in other words, as long as we have saints in art, none of us will want to [i]be[/i] saints.

It's the difference between saying 'that doesn't do anything for me' and 'that is flawed and doesn't do anything for anyone else, either.' And as others point out, identifying herself as Catholic while being so condescending is extra galling.

[Nihil Obstat]

I'd also like to add that she's written an entire book about 'being Catholic today'. As if she knows. As if she can put herself forward as an example to the rest of us.
She presents herself as a person who knows Catholicism. This is just wrong.