lost_in_this_world Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Although I understand that many here may not agree this is my opinion of the Notre Dame controversy. Aside from the abortion debate and the president's position, for a graduating class to the first african american president as their commencement speaker is great. i completely understand the controversy. i myself find the situation difficult to pick a side with. i do not necessarily have a huge issue with him speaking but rather him receiving the honorary degree. yes i understand that out president directly contradicts the roman catholic pro life view, i just think that to interrupt his speech to the class of 2009 is rude. i believe there is a time in which to protest. and the commencement speech is not one of those times. the speech is for the graduates and i think that it is rude and obviously disrupting for the graduating class to listen to their speaker. i listened to the speech through and i thought it was good. i feel that the speech was appropriate and that the president had class. if you take away religion/the abortion debate, then yes i guess he deserves an honorary degree and the speech was good. i understand that abortion is the heart of the controversy. i just feel that those who opposed the president speaking, made themselves look silly. yes protest outside, before during and after but to constantly interrrupt the speech to the graduates is rude and uncalled for. its about thte graduates not the president. why should you ruin their day? i am all for civilly disobeying and protesting but i also think that there is a time and a place. Obama is our president, i may not agree with him on many issues, but he deserves respect as the commander in chief. i am mixed about how i feel on this issue. mostly because it is pretty cool to have the president as your commencement speaker. he did it with class and that should be recognized. ok let me have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 You have to respect the office, but you don't respect the man until he has earned it. It's been awhile since a president has earned my respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 the reason why Abortion is legal in this country after 40 years of bantering back and forth and protesting and sidewalk rosaries and walk for lifes.... ...comes down to what is on display in the OP... we Catholics aren't together on this issue. Too many Catholics have tolerated the murder, we respect the murderers, and we allow ourselves to be taken in by the personalities and the charm of the murderers... ...and we belittle those who take a hard stand against the murderers... it's no wonder our battle is no where near the end... you would welcome satan himself to get an honorary degree at a Catholic university, and you would stand up for him and say, "hey, aside from the fact he's the prince of darkness, he speaks good and he deserves a law degree..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 (edited) It's ironic that your post, Dominican is the one that strikes me as dividing us.. lost's post even acknowledged the fact that folks would disagree with her point, but you stretch it so far as to assume she herself would welcome satan to get the honor at a Catholic institution. First of all, if you cannot see the difference between a pro-abortion industry president and the devil himself, then you certainly have another thing coming to you and the pro-life movement, because that kind of rhetoric will get us absolutely no where. Secondly, she didn't say at all that she was welcoming him, as if she were the one who would have invited him in the first place. She was merely giving us an honest opinion after the fact - after everything was said and done. I don't agree with everything she says about Obama's speech either, but good grief why can't you can have some maturity when choosing the word's to express your opposition? Edited May 19, 2009 by Didymus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 What I find interesting is that the media (or at least the stuff I've seen and read) has done a fairly decent job of presenting both sides fairly. And no, I don't watch FOXandCrap. Whenever the abortion issue rears it's head, you usually see the pro-lifers depicted as knuckle-dragging yahoos; however, that wasn't the case in what I saw over the last few weeks. What I will say is that I didn't see many ND students protesting. I saw lots and lots of non-students and non-alumni, which, while good, might've undermined the whole thing. If there had been a huge outcry from the students and faculty, maybe they would've gotten their way; however, as it was a lot of other folks, not much happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariaane Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1870459' date='May 19 2009, 12:48 AM']i listened to the speech through and i thought it was good. i feel that the speech was appropriate and that the president had class.[/quote] You consider double speak, rhetoric and equating moral relativism as a legitimate Catholic position as "good" and "appropriate". Hmmm... [quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1870459' date='May 19 2009, 12:48 AM']if you take away religion/the abortion debate, then yes i guess he deserves an honorary degree and the speech was good. i understand that abortion is the heart of the controversy.[/quote] Really... What exactly has Barry done to earn a honorary degree? [quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1870459' date='May 19 2009, 12:48 AM']i just feel that those who opposed the president speaking, made themselves look silly.[/quote] The only person who made themselves look silly, IMO, was Dr Alan Keyes. [quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1870459' date='May 19 2009, 12:48 AM']yes protest outside, before during and after but to constantly interrrupt the speech to the graduates is rude and uncalled for. its about thte graduates not the president. why should you ruin their day? i am all for civilly disobeying and protesting but i also think that there is a time and a place.[/quote] Would you take this attitude if the President was endorsing enslaving people? If not, why? [quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1870459' date='May 19 2009, 12:48 AM']i am mixed about how i feel on this issue. mostly because it is pretty cool to have the president as your commencement speaker. he did it with class and that should be recognized.[/quote] There is nothing "classy" about a man who intentionally sought to be honoured at a Catholic institution in order to divide the Catholic community. Barry knows what he's doing, and there's nothing honourable or "classy" about it. [quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1870459' date='May 19 2009, 12:48 AM']ok let me have it[/quote] Be careful what you wish for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_in_this_world Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 wow reading the posts is interesting i am in no way pro choice or even close. i do think the presidents speech was classy. if you listened to the speech it did not pit one side against the other. he attempted to put the focus on preventing abortion and promoting adoption. i have never once every really agreed or even liked anything Obama has said but i think this speech was his best one yet. i think the people who were yelling in the middle of his speech look silly. not the ones protesting outside before after or during. i just feel that the focus should have been put on the students. it was their graduation after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_in_this_world Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 we catholics arent together on the debate. i dont want to come off sounding liek im pro obama pro choice because i really am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariaane Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1870945' date='May 19 2009, 06:47 PM']i am in no way pro choice or even close.[/quote] I don't think anyone is implying you are. You are however acquiescing with evil, whether you realise it or not. [quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1870945' date='May 19 2009, 06:47 PM']i do think the presidents speech was classy. if you listened to the speech it did not pit one side against the other. he attempted to put the focus on preventing abortion and promoting adoption. i have never once every really agreed or even liked anything Obama has said but i think this speech was his best one yet.[/quote] Obama's speech was pure rhetoric mingled with moral relativism. Those who think highly of his speech are those who've begun to drink the Kool aid of moral relativism which supports the idea that all positions are "equal". They are not. [quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1870945' date='May 19 2009, 06:47 PM']i think the people who were yelling in the middle of his speech look silly. not the ones protesting outside before after or during.[/quote] Such people look silly to the pro abortionists and secular world. To the faithful, however, you look like a CINO. Think about that. [quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1870945' date='May 19 2009, 06:47 PM']i just feel that the focus should have been put on the students. it was their graduation after all.[/quote] And this is why you are catching flack: You are elevating one day of the graduates lives over the unjust murder of 47 million children who will never even experience what it is like to graduate. I plead for you to rethink your prioritizing of issues. You still have not answered the question on whether you'd take the stance you currently do if the president was radically pro slavery, and what Obama has done to earn a honorary degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote name='ariaane' post='1870956' date='May 19 2009, 01:57 PM']I don't think anyone is implying you are. You are however acquiescing with evil, whether you realise it or not. Obama's speech was pure rhetoric mingled with moral relativism. Those who think highly of his speech are those who've begun to drink the Kool aid of moral relativism which supports the idea that all positions are "equal". They are not. Such people look silly to the pro abortionists and secular world. To the faithful, however, you look like a CINO. Think about that. And this is why you are catching flack: You are elevating one day of the graduates lives over the unjust murder of 47 million children who will never even experience what it is like to graduate. I plead for you to rethink your prioritizing of issues. You still have not answered the question on whether you'd take the stance you currently do if the president was radically pro slavery, and what Obama has done to earn a honorary degree.[/quote] Man, you are so boring. Reading your posts is like reading a series of bullet points punctuated by some indentations. You use terms like "moral relativism" and "the unjust murder" as mere cliches. The guy is saying that politics got in the way of what should be one of the proudest day of the lives of the graduates and their families. I graduated 2 weeks ago and if my commencement had turned into the circus that ND's was, I would've been seriously ticked off. The commencement speaker is supposed to inspire the graduates, giving a speech that uplifts them and makes them feel like they can tackle the world. But, because of the politics of abortion, Obama's speech ended up resembling a stump speech rather than a commencement address. That is what Lost is saying. That [i]that[/i] stinks. [i]Of course[/i] Obama's position on this important issue is lame. [i]Of course[/i] the invitation to speak at the nation's most prestigious Catholic university was unwise (though, I have to say, having ANY president speak at your graduation would be pretty dope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariaane Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote name='kujo' post='1871002' date='May 19 2009, 08:07 PM']Man, you are so boring. Reading your posts is like reading a series of bullet points punctuated by some indentations. You use terms like "moral relativism" and "the unjust murder" as mere cliches.[/quote] I'm sorry, but short sharp sentences are easier to digest and get straight to the point. [quote name='kujo' post='1871002' date='May 19 2009, 08:07 PM']The guy is saying that politics got in the way of what should be one of the proudest day of the lives of the graduates and their families.[/quote] What should have been the proudest day for the graduates was ruined [i]already[/i] by Jenkin's inviting Obama to be honoured. [quote name='kujo' post='1871002' date='May 19 2009, 08:07 PM']I graduated 2 weeks ago and if my commencement had turned into the circus that ND's was, I would've been seriously ticked off.[/quote] To tick you off or to raise our voices on behalf of the 47 million slaughtered unborn? That is the question. I choose the former, so go ahead and cry me a river. [quote name='kujo' post='1871002' date='May 19 2009, 08:07 PM']The commencement speaker is supposed to inspire the graduates, giving a speech that uplifts them and makes them feel like they can tackle the world. But, because of the politics of abortion, Obama's speech ended up resembling a stump speech rather than a commencement address.[/quote] And you have Jenkin's to blame for this. [quote name='kujo' post='1871002' date='May 19 2009, 08:07 PM']That is what Lost is saying. That [i]that[/i] stinks. [i]Of course[/i] Obama's position on this important issue is lame. [i]Of course[/i] the invitation to speak at the nation's most prestigious Catholic university was unwise (though, I have to say, having ANY president speak at your graduation would be pretty dope).[/quote] Interesting that you use the word "lame" to describe an act of intrinsic evil. And no, Lost is acquiescing with evil. PS- I hope my bullet point type sentences bore you further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote name='Didymus' post='1870910' date='May 19 2009, 11:03 AM']It's ironic that your post, Dominican is the one that strikes me as dividing us.. lost's post even acknowledged the fact that folks would disagree with her point, but you stretch it so far as to assume she herself would welcome satan to get the honor at a Catholic institution. First of all, if you cannot see the difference between a pro-abortion industry president and the devil himself, then you certainly have another thing coming to you and the pro-life movement, because that kind of rhetoric will get us absolutely no where. Secondly, she didn't say at all that she was welcoming him, as if she were the one who would have invited him in the first place. She was merely giving us an honest opinion after the fact - after everything was said and done. I don't agree with everything she says about Obama's speech either, but good grief why can't you can have some maturity when choosing the word's to express your opposition?[/quote] another example of how we are divided...more mudslinging and cries of immaturity. If I stated myself so poorly, let me make myself more clear: obama is the devil himself. if you haven't realized that, then the pro-life movement is even more lost than you say... he is the reason why millions upon millions of more babies will be slaughtered...how much more proof does anyone need to see that this man is not of God? To realize this man has no goodwill in him, no matter how much smooth talking rhetoric you guys would like to believe??? My point is that we need to unify and attack the devil, not play anymore games with him and toasts and honor him...this is the reason why we are divided, because many fail to recognize [i]satan himself is in the abortion industry[/i], he's in these pro-abortion politicians, and yes, Sunday, Notre Dame University and their professors/ faculty and students, did indeed honor the devil himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 (edited) [quote name='ariaane' post='1871025' date='May 19 2009, 03:25 PM'] I'm sorry, but short sharp sentences are easier to digest and get straight to the point. What should have been the proudest day for the graduates was ruined [i]already[/i] by Jenkin's inviting Obama to be honoured. To tick you off or to raise our voices on behalf of the 47 million slaughtered unborn? That is the question. I choose the former, so go ahead and cry me a river. And you have Jenkin's to blame for this. Interesting that you use the word "lame" to describe an act of intrinsic evil. And no, Lost is acquiescing with evil. PS- I hope my bullet point type sentences bore you further. [/quote] Do you know Lost's heart? Right, you don't. So keep your opinions on her to yourself. Furthermore, don't you dare imply that I don't value the protests of those who oppose Obama's policies, particularly as it relates to abortion. I have participated in these protests myself so I know their value and worth; however, I do not find that it is appropriate to turn commencement into a three-ring circus. That is not fair and does nothing further our cause. Edited May 19, 2009 by kujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariaane Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote name='kujo' post='1871090' date='May 19 2009, 09:40 PM']Do you know Lost's heart? Right, you don't.[/quote] Pray, tell, where have I judged Lost's heart? Exactly. I haven't- you simply have read this into my statements. Stating that one is acquiescing to evil is not akin to judging one's heart. Such a statement is descriptive of her actions, and not her intent. Please also note that I mentioned that Lot may not (paraphrased) "realise she is doing this or not." [mod]personal attack - Lil Red[/mod] [quote name='kujo' post='1871090' date='May 19 2009, 09:40 PM']So keep your opinions on her to yourself.[/quote] Now what would be the point of doing this on a Catholic forum? [quote name='kujo' post='1871090' date='May 19 2009, 09:40 PM']Furthermore, don't you dare imply that I don't value the protests of those who oppose Obama's policies, particularly as it relates to abortion.[/quote] Funny, your words implied just this. Perhaps you ought to read over your previous statements and observe how you elevate one enjoying their graduation day over speaking on behalf of the 47 million unborn who have no voice. [quote name='kujo' post='1871090' date='May 19 2009, 09:40 PM']I have participated in these protests myself so I know their value and worth; however, I do not find that it is appropriate to turn commencement into a three-ring circus. That is not fair and does nothing further our cause.[/quote] Your opinion solely. Thankfully, those who fought for the abolition of slavery and the martyrs who laid their lives down for the faith didn't take such a "girly man" approach [mod]personal attack - Lil Red[/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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