I'm Going To Talk About Nd

[ariaane]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1871267' date='May 20 2009, 02:13 AM']You haven't been around that long but you've certainly made your share of ridiculous statements.[/quote]

Again, meaningless dribble if you can't point out what I've said and why it's ridiculous. Please brush up on your debating skills. Might I also add that if you're looking to open a reasonable debate with me, you’re going the wrong way about it.

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1871267' date='May 20 2009, 02:13 AM']. LitW said that they didn't have a problem with President Obama speaking. Its in the giving of the honorary degree that causes a problem. That is exactly the issue that the bishops and theologians have been speaking to.[/quote]

Lost is opposed to all protests in the midst of Obama’s speech. She is opposed to all forms of protest, be it peaceful or loud protests as she has said explicitly (and you would have caught this if you bothered to read what she wrote before opening your mouth) that the day was for the graduates and therefore should go without any disruption.
This was unlike what the Bishops have said, so stop obfuscating.

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1871267' date='May 20 2009, 02:13 AM']I can think the man can turn a phrase without having to agree with him. You reject obvious that he's a good speaker and it weakens your argument.[/quote]

Good speaker?

According to whose OPINON?

Notice the subjectivity.

In my OPINION, he is a horrific speaker who relies on reading a telemprompter 99% of the time, and has even thanked himself and stuttered ridiculously without his trusted prompter.

Those who revere his reading off a teleprompter skills are rather inadvertently insulting Caucasians who are enamoured with their first magic negro in a long time, and other kool aid drinkers of all races who can barely construct a cohesive sentence themselves.

Obama, a good speaker?

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1871267' date='May 20 2009, 02:13 AM']Based on this you are going to call LitW Catholic in name only?[/quote]

[b]I haven't called her tha[/b]t so stop imputing faults upon my character which I am not guilty of.

Try [b]reading what was said before [/b]you attempt to be Lost's white knight on a horse.

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1871267' date='May 20 2009, 02:13 AM']Again, be prepared to make the same statement about the bishops who have stated the EXACT same opinion as LitW[/quote]

Reading comprehension, Jamie. Reading comprehension.

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1871267' date='May 20 2009, 02:13 AM']Your only response to people boils down to "if you don't agree with me you're not Catholic and you support evil"[/quote]



Oh- the irony! You have [b]lied[/b] about what I've said, and you have not addressed any of my points because you haven't read what I have written.

You instead open your first post to me with an ad hominem, which speaks volumes about yourself.

Lost and Kujo were the first to attack by calling me hateful and labeling my first post "boring" and now they've scurried off because they can't handle being thrown the venom back which they first threw at me.

But of course, being the hypocrite you are, just like Kujo and lost who demand not be judged, but are the first to judge Dominican Soul and I, you project your own failings upon me.

My arguments have substance. Lost's arguments haven't.

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1871267' date='May 20 2009, 02:13 AM']That is moronic.[/quote]

Over here, using such language is a no no, so I'm going to assume that it's because you're a Yank, the word has a less strong meaning.

Did you see what I did?

I stopped and thought before I posted an insult to you, after calling my approach "moronic" which is a very offensive term in the UK. I didn't just jump in guns blazing as you have done which has made you appear rather...foolish.

It's called critical thinking. Try it sometime.

Edited May 20, 2009 by ariaane

[ariaane]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1871447' date='May 20 2009, 05:38 AM']So one person did that's on that person. I thought we where speaking of a number of people.[/quote]

"To the faithful, however, you look like a CINO. Think about that."

Knight, with all due respect, I'd ignore Jamie's claims.

Saying someone looks like a CINO is not tantamount to saying someone is a CINO.

I said what I said in the form I did because lost first said that protestors look silly and rude, and I needed to show her how her statement could be turned back on her.

[ariaane]

[quote name='kujo' post='1871275' date='May 20 2009, 02:20 AM'][/quote]

[mod]personal attack --hugheyforlife[/mod]

Edited May 20, 2009 by hugheyforlife

[ariaane]

My previous words:

[color="#000080"]That some pro life people don't wish to display graphic images of abortion during a protest does not bother me.

[b]That some pro life people consider protesting in any shape or form rude and silly, even if it is peaceful, during the most pro abortionist president's speech at a Catholic instution is what irritates me.[/b]

Maybe the man who stood up and shouted in the crowd didn't do the pro life side a favour.

[b]However, had he and others stood up and started reciting the Hail Mary or Prayer for the Unborn in a dignified and peaceful manner during Obama's speech, the likes of Lost and Kujo would still object to this, as they have clearly said that the day was for the graduates and so should be without disruption. [/b]

If I'm a part of a football team, I do not wish for my team to be comprised of team members who wish to help the opposing team, and who go even as far to score an own goal.
[/color]

[ariaane]

[quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1871317' date='May 20 2009, 03:15 AM']i guess i was naive in thinking my opinion would spark a debate like this. i have no problem with debating or arguing but when you make the attack on me personal then its coming back at you.[/quote]

I did to you what you did to me FIRST.

As I said, one thing about lefties (and those who are left on the issues of life) is that you are happy to mudsling at your opponents, but you let out the loudest shriek when such mud is flung back at you.

Treat others how you'd like to be treated.

If you don't like my harsh words, then don't post a first response to me that labels me "hateful".

It was [b]YOU[/b] who turned the debate personal, but of course, as many of your type do, you fail to see your own [b]hypocrisy[/b].

[quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1871317' date='May 20 2009, 03:15 AM']sue me because i prefer to look for the good in things and people including our commander in chief.[/quote]

Your perogative.

Others are free to not take your approach.

[quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1871317' date='May 20 2009, 03:15 AM']feel free to make me look like the devil if it makes you feel better.[/quote]

More appeal to emotion.

That isn't a substitute for debate.

It aint working on me, hun.

[quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1871317' date='May 20 2009, 03:15 AM']i can only imagine how you treat people who are pro choice.[/quote]

Try reading back one of my first couple of responses to you and you'll see how.

Again, your problem is that you don't read what people write, as you'd know the answer to the above.

PS- Lets stop using the flowery euphemism "pro choice" and start using the correct term "[b]pro abortion[/b]".

[ariaane]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1871347' date='May 20 2009, 03:41 AM']This probably won't come as any surprise, but I'm behind dominicansoul and ariaane 100% here. I don't have a whole lot to say which they haven't already said. [b][color="#000080"](Ariaane says: Thank you)
[/color][/b]
I find it really sad that so many "pro-life Catholics" on here don't seem to know whose side they're really on.

[b]Seems they have nothing but contempt and criticism for anyone who dares speak out against evil and call it by it's true name, and routinely defend or make excuses for politicians like Obama[/b] who actively support the killing of the innocent, while deriding pro-lifers who make too much noise speaking out against this evil.

[b]Ironically, while these bleeding hearts regularly condemn vocal pro-lifers as "divisive" and "uncharitable," they themselves are hardly charitable towards those pro-lifers, and would rather divide themselves from them, than from those who promote child-murder through laws and funding.[/b] [b][color="#000080"](Ariaane says: Yep there goes their hypocrisy. "We'll be nasty to pro lifers, but don't you dare be nasty back" is their motto.)[/color][/b]

It seems [b]a sad number of "pro-life Catholics" prefer to be politically-correct and hold hands and sing Kumbayah with pro-abortion politicians and liberals[/b], than take a stand [i]with[/i] (rather than against) those pro-lifers who actually speak out against abortion and those who promote it.
I mean, God forbid anyone call us "right-wing religious fanatics"![/quote]

Thank you, Socrates.

[ariaane]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1871570' date='May 20 2009, 07:27 AM']I have a friend who is an ex-Christian that left because she saw the parishioners around her as hypocritical, so bringing up religion with her would not be a good idea since she would be defensive about Christians.[/quote]

Yes, I love the "I left the Church because the Church was full of hypocrites" routine.

Isn't ironic that those who leave the Church because of the hypocrisy they see are almost always hypocrites themselves?

Only they don't see their own flaws, but others.

I've had long periods when I have not attended mass, sometimes due to some of the attendees, but I'll be damned if I play the "there are hypocrites in the Church line" as I am probably guilty, to some extent, of the flaws I dislike in them.

There are hypocrites in all walks of life: Church, school, neighborhoods, homes, and most significantly, [b]ourselves.[/b]

No one truly leaves the Church or Christianity altogether because of hypocrisy. They leave due to a weakness in themselves, only they don't know it, and may only realise this when they re enter the Church. Such people need to take some responsibility for themselves and stop playing the blame game.

[ariaane]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1871491' date='May 20 2009, 06:07 AM']I think that what Lost in This World had a problem in the WAY that the protests happened, not in the fact that there were protests.[/quote]

Lost said:

[i]"i believe there is a time in which to protest. [b]and the commencement speech is not one of those times. the speech is for the graduates[/b] and i think that it is rude and obviously disrupting for the graduating class to listen to their speaker. i listened to the speech through and i thought it was good.

yes protest outside, before during and after [b]but to constantly interrrupt the speech to the graduates is rude and uncalled for[/b]. its about thte graduates not the president. why should you ruin their day?"
[/i]

There you go. Care to rethink your statement now?

If people had stood up and recited the Haily Mary in a dignified manner during Obama's speech, it seems she still would object. Afterall, Obama's speech was "classy".

[ariaane]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1871493' date='May 20 2009, 06:08 AM']Lost in this World's opinion is pretty straight forward and rational.[/quote]

So, do you, like Lost, think it is "rude and silly" for protestors to cause any disruption during the president's speech, regardless of whether the disruption was peaceful and dignified, and perhaps even came in the form of the recitation of the Hail Mary?

[ariaane]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1871473' date='May 20 2009, 05:56 AM']I hadn't lumped you. [b]But if you would like to show how LitW's opinion is different than Mary Ann Glendon, I would love to hear it. [/b]Glendon was fine with President Obama speaking. Its clear she was only against the award. This is the same thing that LitW's opinion. We praised Glendon and LitW is getting railed.[/quote]

Gladly.

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1871426' date='May 20 2009, 05:21 AM']A direct quote from Mary Ann Glendon Anybody who is going to question LitW's Catholicism, please send a letter to Mary Ann Glendon and tell her what a horrible "In Name Only" Catholic she is as well. They are stating the exact same opinion[/quote]

Pray tell, Jamie, where does Mary Ann Glendon say that it is “silly and rude” for any disruption or protests to occur during Obama’s speech? Because, I seem to have missed it.

Where does she attack protestors?

Where does she say [b][i]"i just feel that those who opposed the president speaking, made themselves look silly"[/i][/b], as Lost has said?

Where does she label the President's speech "classy" and "appropiate"?

This is what is being debated, not whether it was licit for Obama to speak, but whether it is called for to label those who protest in the midst of Obama's speech as "rude and silly".

And no. she may have accepted Obama speaking at ND, but not without some hesistation.

Upon learning that Obama would speak at ND, Mary Ann Glendon said:

"Last month, when you called to tell me that the commencement speech was to be given by President Obama, I mentioned to you that I would have to rewrite my speech. Over the ensuing weeks, [b]the task that once seemed so delightful has been complicated by a number of factors."[/b]

She acknowledges that what was a delightful occasion for her had been negatively impacted and so she had to rewrite her speech. It doesn’t seem that she is overjoyed at the mere idea of Obama speaking.

But I digress, as all this is beyond the point. Mary Ann Glendon has not been so judgemental to those protesting, either before or during Obama's speech, like Lost has been. I doubt she has made such a statement because she also said:

"In order to avoid the inevitable speculation about the reasons for my decision, I will release this letter to the press, [b]but I do not plan to make any further comment on the matter at this time. "[/b]

[Maggyie]

Ladies and gents, let's take a step back and cool it. There's no good reason for us to have these divisions.

[ariaane]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1871494' date='May 20 2009, 06:08 AM']Ditto from me. He always gives good speeches.[/quote]

Does your comment also apply when he gives speeches [b]without[/b] his teleprompter?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeJsyoKIabY&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeJsyoKIabY...feature=related[/url] The latest

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omHUsRTYFAU&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omHUsRTYFAU...feature=related[/url] The worst in my opinion

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThEAO0lt4Dw&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThEAO0lt4Dw...feature=related[/url] Just for fun

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhWufhgdr7Ev"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhWufhgdr7Ev[/url]

The one without a video:

[url="http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Barack-Obama-Thanks-Himself-In-Teleprompt-Blunder-During-Address-With-Irish-PM-On-St-Patricks-Day/Article/200903315243932?lpos=World_News_First_World_News_Article_Teaser_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15243932_Barack_Obama_Thanks_Himself_In_Teleprompt_Blunder_During_Address_With_Irish_PM_On_St_Patricks_Day"]http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-New...St_Patricks_Day[/url]

[b]A teleprompt blunder has led to Barack Obama thanking himself in a speech[/b] at the White House in a St Patrick's Day celebration....

[LouisvilleFan]

And people wonder why I think a good number of Notre Dame protesters might be motivated more out of a strong dislike for President Obama than the actions of Notre Dame or a desire to promote the pro-life cause. I feel like one of the few pro-lifers who actually believes we can do something productive regardless of the political circumstances in which God plants us.

Edited May 20, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[BG45]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1871622' date='May 20 2009, 08:44 AM']Ladies and gents, let's take a step back and cool it. There's no good reason for us to have these divisions.[/quote]



Though I doubt we'll need the time by when the mods getting around to reading it. Maybe we'll skip getting a "cool it" warning given Phorum Guidelines one through three out of six are being utterly ripped to shreds...

[Jaime]

[quote name='ariaane' post='1871602' date='May 20 2009, 04:29 AM']I did not say that Lost was a CINO. My exact words were:

"and which has caused CINO's to argue abortion to be a lesser issue than the DP, war and other issues."

You assumed I was referring to her. I wasn't.[/quote]

there is this
[quote]To the faithful, however, [b]you look like a CINO[/b]. Think about that.[/quote]

I don't lie sweetheart. You said it