Apotheoun Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1880772' date='Jun 1 2009, 09:38 PM']Apo. I understand your point and agree with it. However that is not the same as discounting the source simply because it is a Muslim source. It would be like rejecting any source regarding Israeli policy simply because it was Jewish.[/quote] Knowing the bias of the paper allows one to look for the possibility that the author (or editors) may simply be trying to discredit Dr. Sultan because they do not like what she is saying. Does Dr. Sultan have biases? Yes, and I say that because everyone does, but she does not hide her anti-Islamic bias, which is fairly evident in the portions of the interviews posted on YouTube; while the article in the paper presents an air of objectivity that comes off as false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1880790' date='Jun 1 2009, 11:43 PM']Knowing the bias of the paper allows one to look for the possibility that the author (or editors) may simply be trying to discredit Dr. Sultan because they do not like what she is saying. Does Dr. Sultan have biases? Yes, and I say that because everyone does, but she does not hide her anti-Islamic bias, which is fairly evident in the portions of the interviews posted on YouTube; while the article in the paper presents an air of objectivity that comes off as false.[/quote] Hey Apoth, thanks for joining in the discussion. This is what I have been saying all along regarding the paper, particularly about the anonymous man who is a supposed "friend" of the Sultan family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1880790' date='Jun 1 2009, 10:43 PM']Knowing the bias of the paper allows one to look for the possibility that the author (or editors) may simply be trying to discredit Dr. Sultan because they do not like what she is saying. Does Dr. Sultan have biases? Yes, and I say that because everyone does, but she does not hide her anti-Islamic bias, which is fairly evident in the portions of the interviews posted on YouTube; while the article in the paper presents an air of objectivity that comes off as false.[/quote] And those are all valid criticisms. I did not link the article nor would I have. That decision, however, would have been based on the lack of quality of the article, not the religion of the author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1880814' date='Jun 1 2009, 11:02 PM']Hey Apoth, thanks for joining in the discussion. This is what I have been saying all along regarding the paper, particularly about the anonymous man who is a supposed "friend" of the Sultan family.[/quote] And those are valid criticisms. Rejecting it simply because of the religion of the author/authors is not a valid reason and simply ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1880829' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:19 AM']And those are valid criticisms. Rejecting it simply because of the religion of the author/authors is not a valid reason and simply ignorant.[/quote] In this case, it was NOT ignorant. Wafa Sultan speaks out AGAINST Islam. Islam is not JUST religion, but culture as well. Therefore, a Muslim would not speak favorably of her. See, thinking logically is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1880832' date='Jun 1 2009, 11:23 PM']In this case, it was NOT ignorant. Wafa Sultan speaks out AGAINST Islam. Islam is not JUST religion, but culture as well. Therefore, a Muslim would not speak favorably of her. See, thinking logically is fun.[/quote] What in god's name are you talking about. Sultan speaks against Islam. Islam is a religion and a culture Therefore, A Muslim would not speak favorably of her. Is there some esoteric logical form I'm missing burried in there or is that just a total mess of an argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 [i]See, thinking logically is fun. [/i] lol, I missed that part. Have you ever heard the saying "coat your words in honey in case you have to eat them"? You might want to stick with psychology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' post='1880829' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:19 AM']And those are valid criticisms. Rejecting it simply because of the religion of the author/authors is not a valid reason and simply ignorant.[/quote] That's not the only reason she 'rejects' it. HCFF also points out that there is only one source and that person does not identify themselves. Why can't you understand that someone with a clearly faulty article could be influenced by their personal beliefs, since they are defending their personal beliefs with faulty data? Edited June 2, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1880842' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:32 AM']That's not the only reason she 'rejects' it. HCFF also points out that there is only one source and that person does not identify themselves. Why can't you understand that someone with a clearly faulty article could be influenced by their personal beliefs, since they are defending their personal beliefs with faulty data?[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1880842' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:32 AM']That's not the only reason she 'rejects' it. HCFF also points out that there is only one source and that person does not identify themselves. Why can't you understand that someone with a clearly faulty article could be influenced by their personal beliefs, since they are defending their personal beliefs with faulty data?[/quote] I'm sure the authors were influenced by their faith. That has nothing to the validity or lack thereof of their argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1880837' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:27 AM']Sultan speaks against Islam. Islam is a religion and a culture Therefore, A Muslim would not speak favorably of her.[/quote] Very good. Note taking is fun too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1880846' date='Jun 1 2009, 11:35 PM']I'm sure the authors were influenced by their faith. That has nothing to the validity or lack thereof of their argument.[/quote] It can when they use faulty data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1880847' date='Jun 1 2009, 11:36 PM']Very good. Note taking is fun too.[/quote] Uh huh. Tell you what. You're obviously a really smart person from whom I can learn a great deal. Why don't you explain the structure of your argument for me? I'd really appreciate being able to get some insight into how that powerful brain of yours works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1880854' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:40 AM']Uh huh. Tell you what. You're obviously a really smart person from whom I can learn a great deal. Why don't you explain the structure of your argument for me? I'd really appreciate being able to get some insight into how that powerful brain of yours works.[/quote] So far you're the only one here who's confused by what I said. That says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1880848' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:36 AM']It can when they use faulty data.[/quote] It can be useful in examining the psychological basis of why they presented a faulty argument. However regarding the soundness or lack thereof of the argument, the motivations and hopes of the arguer is not a valid consideration. It's an ad hominem fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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