Wafa Sultan, Psychiatrist

[musturde]

[quote name='Ivri Haza' post='1882375' date='Jun 3 2009, 07:42 PM']can you share references of christians children marry at ages 9, 10, 11? you can be right but i myself don't know about it. is this a practice in modern times or recent modern times? one more thing,,,do you understand islamic religion and islamic culture are not diferent forms? it isnt like in north america with seperation of religion and government. islam is religion. islam is government. islam is socity. islam is culture. islam is education. islam is dress and hygiene practice. islam is marriage rules. islam is raising of children, household issues. islam is law, legal practices. islam is food and diet, islam is everything. ths is the reason for shari'a, also called "the path". shari'a is the path of islam for every muslim. i think for noth american, european, modern progresive societies you cant understand this. you cant.

+ ivri[/quote]


Ah, Ivri. You're Maronite... right? Is Lebanon, Syria, or Jordan run by strict Sharia law (just an example)? You can be Muslim without being under a "Muslim" government.

Edited June 3, 2009 by musturde

[musturde]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1882303' date='Jun 3 2009, 06:05 PM']I am not avoiding that subject, I am pointedly ignoring it because it has nothing to do with this thread. For the tenth time, this thread is about WOMEN in ISLAMIC SOCIETY.[/quote]

Islamic society? What do you mean by that? Which area exactly? That's very general.

Edited June 3, 2009 by musturde

[musturde]

[quote name='Ivri Haza' post='1882319' date='Jun 3 2009, 06:38 PM'][url="http://marriage.about.com/od/arrangedmarriages/a/childbride.htm"]child brides & forced marriages[/url]



[url="http://www.iwhc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3487&Itemid=629"]physical and mental health issues in child brides[/url]







[url="http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm"]answering islam: child marriages, child brides, the example of muhamed[/url]

[url="http://www.unicef.org/childrenandislam/resources.html"]resources by unicef: children & islam[/url]



islam and children, sample video topics:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VfhK-nTXww"]young children indoctrinated in hate for jews and christians[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yncV2AYGA8Y"]young children prepared as terrorists & suicide bombers for glory of al'lah: video 1[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHZavqUqtP4"]young children prepared as suicide bombers for glory of al'lah: video 2[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5SpYbW1NaE"]female genital mutilation in children[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=rACj2_7_orY"]the violent oppresion of woman in islam [[b]strong content--not suitable for minors[/b]][/url]



+ ivri[/quote]

I don't get what the point of all these videos was? Have you heard of the FPM? Have you heard of the LF? You out of all these people should know violence in the Middle East isn't exclusive to Muslims.

[Ivri Haza]

[quote name='musturde' post='1882382' date='Jun 3 2009, 08:50 PM']Ah, Ivri. You're Maronite... right? Is Lebanon, Syria, or Jordan run by strict Sharia law (just an example)? You can be Muslim without being under a "Muslim" government.[/quote]


they were christian lands. i need not say more,,,and back to topic of women opression in islam. thank you.

+ ivri

[Ivri Haza]

[quote name='musturde' post='1882388' date='Jun 3 2009, 08:55 PM']I don't get what the point of all these videos was? Have you heard of the FPM? Have you heard of the LF? You out of all these people should know violence in the Middle East isn't exclusive to Muslims.[/quote]


topic is oppression of women in islam,,,please show respect for fellow member to discuss topic of orignal post.

please understand,,,you can discuss on FMP, LF, anything you want. the first member wanted to discuss about women in islam. looks to me that everyone is trying to stop her,,this group are christians, please show respect to our sister in christ to discuss on the topic,,,not on FMP, LF, hindus, [??why?? why does topic have to compare to others??]. if someone says lets talk about barak obama & anther person ssays "do you know who is george bush?" and posts articles about george bush,,,is it right?

please excuse bad english and typing.

+ ivri

Edited June 4, 2009 by Ivri Haza

[musturde]

[quote name='Ivri Haza' post='1882389' date='Jun 3 2009, 07:55 PM']they were christian lands. i need not say more,,,and back to topic of women opression in islam. thank you.

+ ivri[/quote]

Ivri, I'm Lebanese. I was very startled by your statement. You brought an argument forward, I'm arguing in my own words, not links and videos. Why are you ignoring me? Jordan, Lebanon and Syria are actually now mostly Muslim. Even Lebanon. The person who made this thread clarified she wants to talk about opression in the "Islamic world" not in "Islam". So I'm waiting for her reply as to exactly what that defines.

[musturde]

[quote name='Ivri Haza' post='1882392' date='Jun 3 2009, 07:57 PM']topic is oppression of women in islam,,,please show respect for fellow member to discuss topic of orignal post.

+ ivri[/quote]

Ah, habibi, you're the one who brought up suicide bombers and violence in respect to Islam. I cannot let this be unanswered. I'm sorry. You let this upon the rest of the board.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Ivri Haza' post='1882361' date='Jun 3 2009, 08:31 PM']im confused. the person you are telling to start off a discussion of women's rights abuses in islam, she is the one who started the discussion with the video,,,isn't she? you are asking what does she think about it but i think she is the one who posted the video with her own views on the subject of women in islam. she said she is interested in the general topic of women's rights. this is the same person isn't she? you said this is about talking horrible about islam but the video is about some parts of islam culture that are horrible,,,how can we ignore it?? sometimes there are bad things in the world we have to talk about it. if catholics do bad things everyone talks about it. this is their right, isn't it so?[/quote]


I'm not against talking about it, not at all. What I am against is extrapolating from the negative parts of Islamic culture to the entire religion. There is a lot that is good and beautiful in Islam along with the unacceptable parts, and I don't think HCF would acknowledge this (although the Church teaches it).

To me it is like saying that the priest abuse scandals are the epitome, the "icon" of Catholicism. There are negative aspects in the Church, inadequate laws and sick spirituality etc, but that doesn't change the fact that she has goodness, beauty and truth (in fact, THE Truth).

[musturde]

[quote name='Ivri Haza' post='1882339' date='Jun 3 2009, 06:56 PM']can you give examples of sexism in christianity and judaism that are equal to that in islam?

+ ivri[/quote]

No, because I don't classify the sexism by religion. I've seen sexism within all religions, including places close to home.

[Ivri Haza]

[quote name='musturde' post='1882388' date='Jun 3 2009, 08:55 PM']I don't get what the point of all these videos was? Have you heard of the FPM? Have you heard of the LF? You out of all these people should know violence in the Middle East isn't exclusive to Muslims.[/quote]


did you view? if you dont view, then you ask what is point of it.

+ ivri

[Ivri Haza]

[quote name='musturde' post='1882408' date='Jun 3 2009, 09:04 PM']No, because I don't classify the sexism by religion. I've seen sexism within all religions, including places close to home.[/quote]


video of dr. wafa sultan talks on opprssion of women in islam & alsochild abuse. she talked of the perverse, unnatural pratices by muhamed with little aisha. muslims follow the model of mohamed,,,is like mirror of perfect muslim. muslims do as muhamed did. this types of abuse,, this you say is no need to classify?? my brother, your intentions are not honest,,,i am sorry.

+ ivri

[musturde]

[quote name='Ivri Haza' post='1882410' date='Jun 3 2009, 08:04 PM']did you view? if you dont view, then you ask what is point of it.

+ ivri[/quote]

No, Ivri I don't want to waste my time watching videos. I'm sorry, can you at least summarize them for me and argue for yourself what you believe. By posting these videos, you effectively make someone else argue for you. I don't even know if these videos are credible. It doesn't matter though. The point I was making earlier is that Islam isn't fully to blame for all of these heinous actions you guys are seeing in these videos or websites. Religion isn't as much to blame as the people who interpret it. If you want to go into specifics about a certain country, it'd make all the arguments more interesting.

Edited June 4, 2009 by musturde

[Maggyie]

[url="http://thisisbabylon.net/2008/03/10/jewish-women-of-the-hijab-and-burqa-ii/"]Jewish Women of the Hijab and Burqa [/url]

[Maggyie]

See also the PBS profile on Hasidic women:

[quote]They are Chabad Lubavitchers, a sect of the ultra-Orthodox Hasidim, the most conservative branch of Judiasm today. Their entire lives are circumscribed by Kol Isha, the law for gender separation they believe God himself designed.

Ms. SARAH KANEVSKY: We have the laws that we have to be separate. The underlying thing of Judaism is that because God said something, that's how we do it.

WILLIAMS: Women are constricted by a list of "thou shalt nots." They may not read sacred texts from the pulpit or even sit with their sons in synagogue. They may not sing or dance or pray or even shop in the presence of men. They must conceal their bodies in long clothing and their hair with wigs and wraps, all for fear their sexual energy could arouse men. It may sound sexist, but the women accept all this without complaint.

Ms. RUTI COHEN: You look at it as a limitation. We look at it as a privilege doing it. You know? Doing what God says.[/quote]

[url="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week224/profile.html"]Link.[/url]

[Ivri Haza]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1882404' date='Jun 3 2009, 09:02 PM']I'm not against talking about it, not at all. What I am against is extrapolating from the negative parts of Islamic culture to the entire religion. There is a lot that is good and beautiful in Islam along with the unacceptable parts, and I don't think HCF would acknowledge this (although the Church teaches it).

To me it is like saying that the priest abuse scandals are the epitome, the "icon" of Catholicism. There are negative aspects in the Church, inadequate laws and sick spirituality etc, but that doesn't change the fact that she has goodness, beauty and truth (in fact, THE Truth).[/quote]


she wanted to discuss on this negative part. is it her right? do you discuss on negative things maggie? maggie i ask you again is there something that is imporant to you that you want to speak about that is negatibve in the world? what if i said, maggie youare negative and talking against all priests when you mention abuse scandals. what if i said maggie you hate priests because you are talking on a negative aspect. i am sorry, sister,,,this is what you & some other members did to hischldforever. i 'm questioning if you saying again & again this member is only saying negative things. do you try to understand her,,she said befre she has interest in topic of women's rights. it is great topic! i am a man & i know it is a great topic becasue i come from a woman! always in the news you can find so many stories on muslims abuses of women & children. why not discuss on it? why does it boither you, maggie, that she wants to discuss onthis topic? i am very sorry, sister, but most of these disucussions are not about women in islam but more aboiut telling hischildfoever that she is wrong to discuss it. i am saying this to you from my heart with no malice,,,please understand it.

+ ivri