musturde Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 My point is that a "10 year old" would probably not be married in the Middle East...If there's proof that there's an incredible amount of these cases, i'd be interested in checking it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) [quote name='musturde' post='1881759' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:33 AM']My point is that a "10 year old" would probably not be married in the Middle East...If there's proof that there's an incredible amount of these cases, i'd be interested in checking it out.[/quote] Here's a news story from CNN: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BWP9MYDHDk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BWP9MYDHDk[/url] (Try and ignore the comments, they're pretty vulgar. Something YouTube has to work on IMO.) Edited June 3, 2009 by HisChildForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1881761' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:36 AM']Here's a news story from CNN: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BWP9MYDHDk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BWP9MYDHDk[/url] (Try and ignore the comments, they're pretty vulgar. Something YouTube has to work on IMO.)[/quote] Thanks for this video. Please be aware that on the video it says child marriage a national crisis in [b]Yemen[/b]. The government has put effort to stop this issue. This video did not blame the issue on the religion. You've disproved me by showing that there is a 10 year old case and helped strengthen my previous argument all in one video. Edited June 3, 2009 by musturde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1881707' date='Jun 3 2009, 12:09 AM']Just because you have never seen an older man walking with his child bride does not mean it is a rare occurrence. And I would appreciate it if you did not pretend to know me. My "hatred" of Islam? Please. This is a thread about women's rights - or at least it's SUPPOSED to be. It just so happens that I found an interview (which led me to pursue other articles) that was about women in Islamic society. If I start a thread about women in Asian cultures, will you storm into that one too and rant about my "hatred" of Asia?[/quote] You didn't find it, it was passed along by a "friend". And if you made comments regarding Asians simmilar to ones you've made about Muslims in the past, or got the video from a "friend" who made comments regarding Asians similar to ones some friends of yours have made regarding Muslims in the past then yes, I would say that your posting of the video had unsavory motives. There are intelligent, rational examinations of women’s issues in the Islamic world. Your video wasn’t one of them. Nor are individuals like the woman in your video amongst the individuals likely to have a positive impact on the status of women in the Islamic world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsconditaInDeo Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='musturde' post='1881684' date='Jun 3 2009, 12:32 AM']THIS is an assumption. Please, i've been to the Middle East a couple of times. I've never heard of a 10 year old getting married to a man "decades" older. Besides, that's more of cultural anyways. I know of Palestinian Christians who were married when they were 16.[/quote] This is actually not a rare custom in the middle east and i'm very sure it still occurs until today but it's not a muslim custom exclusively. My best friend, who is from the Middle East and is Christian, has aunts who were married at 12 and 14 and her grandmother was married when she was about 12 to a man who was about 15+ years older than her. At the time it wasn't something that was uncommon. It was also common practice that the young girl would not be able to see the face of her husband (nor could the husband see her face) until they got to their marriage bed, which is after the actual ceremony took place and after the reception. My friend's mom actually told me a funny story: two brothers were getting married and they decided to have the weddings on the same day. One of the brothers were marrying my friend's great aunt and the other brother was marrying her cousin. The girls had their veils over their faces throughout the wedding and at the reception the girls, who were only about 11 or 12 at the time, wanted to take a peek at their new husbands. Now when they saw their faces, my friend's great aunt turned to her cousin and said,"now which one is yours and which one is mine?" Hopefully they ended up with the actual man they married but only God knows if they really did. All of my friend's aunts got married really young. The age her mom got married was considered old in comparison to her sisters and she got married at 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1881888' date='Jun 3 2009, 09:37 AM']You didn't find it, it was passed along by a "friend". And if you made comments regarding Asians simmilar to ones you've made about Muslims in the past, or got the video from a "friend" who made comments regarding Asians similar to ones some friends of yours have made regarding Muslims in the past then yes, I would say that your posting of the video had unsavory motives.[/quote] ...but asians don't go around marrying 9 year old girls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='AbsconditaInDeo' post='1881919' date='Jun 3 2009, 10:56 AM']This is actually not a rare custom in the middle east and i'm very sure it still occurs until today but it's not a muslim custom exclusively. My best friend, who is from the Middle East and is Christian, has aunts who were married at 12 and 14 and her grandmother was married when she was about 12 to a man who was about 15+ years older than her. At the time it wasn't something that was uncommon. It was also common practice that the young girl would not be able to see the face of her husband (nor could the husband see her face) until they got to their marriage bed, which is after the actual ceremony took place and after the reception. My friend's mom actually told me a funny story: two brothers were getting married and they decided to have the weddings on the same day. One of the brothers were marrying my friend's great aunt and the other brother was marrying her cousin. The girls had their veils over their faces throughout the wedding and at the reception the girls, who were only about 11 or 12 at the time, wanted to take a peek at their new husbands. Now when they saw their faces, my friend's great aunt turned to her cousin and said,"now which one is yours and which one is mine?" Hopefully they ended up with the actual man they married but only God knows if they really did. All of my friend's aunts got married really young. The age her mom got married was considered old in comparison to her sisters and she got married at 18.[/quote] Thanks for the story. In older times, it was a bit different. Nowadays it's less normal in many countries to marry so young. As you've pointed out, these women were Christians, therefore this is part of the culture, not the religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1881953' date='Jun 3 2009, 11:14 AM']...but asians don't go around marrying 9 year old girls... [/quote] Well first of all a major chunk of the Islamic population is asian so talking HCF's stearotypes as the norm they ought to. More importantly most Muslims do not mary 9 year olds, not were young brides the point of my example. But yes, in some regions of asian, parts of Hindi India for example, very young women/girls are married. Simply because it's not on a YouTube clip doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Edited June 3, 2009 by Hassan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Was Our Lady being oppressed when she married St. Joseph in her early teens? Was their marriage a violation of her human rights? I'm going to go with no. Early marriage like that is not desirable but it is not wicked either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='Maggie' post='1882005' date='Jun 3 2009, 10:43 AM']Was Our Lady being oppressed when she married St. Joseph in her early teens? Was their marriage a violation of her human rights? I'm going to go with no. Early marriage like that is not desirable but it is not wicked either.[/quote] i highly doubt our Lady was nine years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1882009' date='Jun 3 2009, 12:47 PM']i highly doubt our Lady was nine years old[/quote] No probably not. She was probably 12, 13 or 14... traditionally a woman was considered sexually mature after her first mestruation so marriage could be pretty early. Everyone knows 12 year olds should not be getting married but my point is that it is not some kind of pox upon human society like slavery or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) i don't believe St. Joseph was an old man, either... somehow people starting thinking this, because they just couldn't believe that a young, handsome couple could possibly be celibate. I think there is something called "grace" that both our Lady and St. Joseph possessed that kept them pure and virginal... i think it's sad that in some "religions" people find it acceptable for old men to marry very young girls. these young women are forced in most cases, and this is abusive...in this day and age it's horrendous.. there's a cult here in TX that ran into some serious trouble doing this... Edited June 3, 2009 by dominicansoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1882034' date='Jun 3 2009, 01:02 PM']i don't believe St. Joseph was an old man, either... somehow people starting thinking this, because they just couldn't believe that a young, handsome couple could possibly be celibate. I think there is something called "grace" that both our Lady and St. Joseph possessed that kept them pure and virginal...[/quote] It's true we don't know how old St. Joseph was when he married Mary, but traditionally he has been considered a man old enough to have had at least one prior marriage (a widower). Advanced age is also used to describe his complete disappearence after the finding of Jesus in the temple. He was obviously dead by the time Christ was in his 30s, or Jesus would never have had to give his widowed mother to St. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1882034' date='Jun 3 2009, 05:02 PM']i don't believe St. Joseph was an old man, either... somehow people starting thinking this, because they just couldn't believe that a young, handsome couple could possibly be celibate. I think there is something called "grace" that both our Lady and St. Joseph possessed that kept them pure and virginal...[/quote] I was under the impression that the tradition of St Joseph being older was found in the Protoevangelium of James. I've also heard many Christians, Catholic and Protestant, infer that he was much older from the fact that he is not mentioned again after the finding of the boy Jesus in the Temple. Regardless of the age, he was given the grace needed to live in such a marriage, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Oh, and I don't know for sure, but I'd imagine we'd find a higher incidence of girls being married at younger ages in societies where there is a higher incidence of maternal mortality during childbirth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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