Wafa Sultan, Psychiatrist

[Hassan]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1880368' date='Jun 1 2009, 11:36 AM']Keep in mind that sexual standards differ from culture to culture and from era to era. Our Lady was 12 or a year or two older when she married St. Joseph who has always been considered to be way over 40 at the time of the birth of Jesus. While their relationship was of course, not sexual, their society would not have been appalled if it was. Cousin-marriage is a longstanding tradition in many Western socities and has only fallen out of style in the last 100 years or so, as you know if you've ever seen Gone With the Wind! Arranged marriage is also not condemned at all by the Church, although forced marriage definitely is [/quote]


Not to mention the continuation of such practices Sultan described in Hindi and other contemporary cultures. The problem is not in adressing them, it becomes a problem when people use the individuals suffering under such systems as a mere means to an end. As a means to justify their bigotry towards one of the cultures in which such practices go on.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1880368' date='Jun 1 2009, 12:36 PM']Keep in mind that sexual standards differ from culture to culture and from era to era. Our Lady was 12 or a year or two older when she married St. Joseph who has always been considered to be way over 40 at the time of the birth of Jesus. While their relationship was of course, not sexual, their society would not have been appalled if it was. Cousin-marriage is a longstanding tradition in many Western socities and has only fallen out of style in the last 100 years or so, as you know if you've ever seen Gone With the Wind! Arranged marriage is also not condemned at all by the Church, although forced marriage definitely is [/quote]

This is something that is ONGOING in Islamic culture. I am talking about modern times right now.

[url="http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=1631"]http://www.americamagazine.org/content/art...article_id=1631[/url]

[Maggyie]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1880477' date='Jun 1 2009, 05:45 PM']This is something that is ONGOING in Islamic culture. I am talking about modern times right now.

[url="http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=1631"]http://www.americamagazine.org/content/art...article_id=1631[/url][/quote]

My point is that while in modern times we understand that child marriage is usually a violation of human rights, the practice of child marriage, cousin marriage etc. is not a purely Islamic one. They didn't invent it or something. A lot of the negatives of Islamic culture (which ARE negatives, don't get me wrong) are still there only because their societies as a whole are pre-modern. Not because of their religion. Child marriage, cousin marriage, and arranged marriage were also practiced by Jews and Christians in pre-modern times.

EDIT: Just to clarify, marriage of cousins took place in Christian society into the modern era (19th century/early 20th century America is definitely modern times! Whoopsie)

Edited June 1, 2009 by Maggie

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1880477' date='Jun 1 2009, 04:45 PM']This is something that is ONGOING in Islamic culture. I am talking about modern times right now.

[url="http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=1631"]http://www.americamagazine.org/content/art...article_id=1631[/url][/quote]


And Hindi cultures, and various other premodern cultures existing in the contemporary world.



It is horrid, but you and your friend using women victimized by such practices in Islamic cultures for demagogery is more than a little unsavory.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Hassan

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1880644' date='Jun 1 2009, 09:31 PM']It is horrid, but you and your friend using women victimized by such practices in Islamic cultures for demagogery is more than a little unsavory.[/quote]

Assuming you know my track record with ANY thread pertaining to women, I find it funny that you think I (of ALL people) would USE victimized women for "demagogery" - whatever THAT is.

Excuse me for posting fact. This thread was created to discuss Wafa Sultan and her message. This thread was NOT created to belittle and name-call Wafa Sultan, NOR was it created to discuss other cultures and their practices. You have, once again, managed to manipulate a thread to your own liking. I'm interested in discussing the actual topic of this thread.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1880699' date='Jun 1 2009, 09:30 PM']Assuming you know my track record with ANY thread pertaining to women, I find it funny that you think I (of ALL people) would USE victimized women for "demagogery" - whatever THAT is.

Excuse me for posting fact. This thread was created to discuss Wafa Sultan and her message. This thread was NOT created to belittle and name-call Wafa Sultan, NOR was it created to discuss other cultures and their practices. You have, once again, managed to manipulate a thread to your own liking. I'm interested in discussing the actual topic of this thread.[/quote]


HEY! Why don't you CONTINUE to use ALL CAPS to GET YOUR POINT ACROSS? I feel like IT REALLY BOOSTS THE VALIDITY OF YOUR POINT!!!

Now, I'm not sure why you feel that you have some special status that prohibits you from being charged with using the victimization of women for demagoguery. Do you feel that you self proclaimed status as a "feminist" puts you in some elite position regarding women's issues? Now regardless of your presumptuous assumptions I do feel you are now using victimized women for demagoguery.

Finally, you did not post fact you posted a ranting. If you have trouble discerning the difference then I must say that is unfortunate. I'm happy to direct your attention to sources which could illuminate the difference between the two for you if you would like.

[HisChildForever]

If anyone would like to intelligently discuss the video interview I have posted, please feel free to contribute.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1880717' date='Jun 1 2009, 10:55 PM']If anyone would like to intelligently discuss the video interview I have posted, please feel free to contribute. [/quote]


I'd be happy to.

[HisChildForever]

Key word, intelligently.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1880719' date='Jun 1 2009, 09:58 PM']Key word, intelligently.[/quote]


Wow, you're really clever.

Anyway, if you are willing to discuss it rationally I'd be happy to.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Hassan

[HisChildForever]

Anyone?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1878461' date='May 30 2009, 11:05 AM']What an ignorant thing to say.[/quote]
It is not an ignorant thing to say at all. In fact, it is important to know the ideological views the editors and authors of any newspaper. No newspaper is unbiased.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1880767' date='Jun 1 2009, 10:35 PM']It is not an ignorant thing to say at all.[/quote]

I disagree


[quote]In fact, it is important to know the ideological views the editors and authors of any newspaper. No newspaper is unbiased.[/quote]

I agree with this.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1880499' date='Jun 1 2009, 04:06 PM']EDIT: Just to clarify, marriage of cousins took place in Christian society into the modern era (19th century/early 20th century America is definitely modern times! Whoopsie)[/quote]
The canons of the Church have always regulated the degree of consanguinity of perspective marriage partners.

[Hassan]

Apo.


I understand your point and agree with it. However that is not the same as discounting the source simply because it is a Muslim source. It would be like rejecting any source regarding Israeli policy simply because it was Jewish.