Operation Revival

[OraProMe]

LouisvilleFan and I were discussing this some time ago on another thread. How would you fix the deplorable state of the Church? He suggested much more emphasis on technology and evangelization, but he can elaborate here if he wants.

Personally, I think we already have the two things it takes to re-invigorate the Church. The Priesthood and the Family. Two divinely founded institutions. The only way liturgical and doctrinal dissent will end is with properly formed, holy priests. The best way to fill the Church with young people is to raise them in devout, holy families. I also think the Church has given us the perfect models to follow, St. John Vianney and the Holy Family of Nazareth.

I think if we create a culture built around these two great gifts we can't go wrong.

Added onto that youth groups, proper catechetics, the consecration of Russia, the founding of new religious orders etc. would help a bunch

What do you guys think needs to be done?

[CatherineM]

Catechism, for adults, and lots of it.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1881119' date='Jun 2 2009, 04:21 PM']Personally, I think we already have the two things it takes to re-invigorate the Church. The Priesthood and the Family. Two divinely founded institutions. The only way liturgical and doctrinal dissent will end is with properly formed, holy priests. The best way to fill the Church with young people is to raise them in devout, holy families. I also think the Church has given us the perfect models to follow, St. John Vianney and the Holy Family of Nazareth.[/quote]


[quote name='CatherineM' post='1881127' date='Jun 2 2009, 04:36 PM']Catechism, for adults, and lots of it.[/quote]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Restoration of a culture of evangelization.

[Resurrexi]

I think liturgical reform-of-the-reform and improved catechesis are necessary.

Some liturgical reforms I think are needed:
-Communion on the tongue only
-Communion kneeling except for those physically incapable
-Administration of Communion by priests and deacons only at all regular liturgies
-Communion paten always used during distribution of Communion
-Only males serving Mass
-Latin used for the forms of all the Sacraments (except Matrimony)

Ideally, I would like the usus antiquior to be the regular way to celebrate the Roman Liturgy.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Resurrexi

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1881127' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:36 AM']Catechism, for adults, and lots of it.[/quote]

AGREED. We also need better Catechism for children and adolescents.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1881137' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:54 AM']AGREED. We also need better Catechism for children and adolescents.[/quote]

Religion classes in Catholic schools are an important part of this.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1881138' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:55 AM']Religion classes in Catholic schools are an important part of this.[/quote]

I know that. In many Catholic schools they need to be improved, and the same goes for CCD.

[OraProMe]

I'm not sure about Catholic schools. I think it's hard for a few good kids to learn in an environment where all their peers are apathetic and worldly.

I'd like to see more religious classes offered for teens in the parishes and first communion and confirmation classes to be taught under the auspices of the priest, not through the parochial school.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1881149' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:16 PM']I'm not sure about Catholic schools. I think it's hard for a few good kids to learn in an environment where all their peers are apathetic and worldly.

I'd like to see more religious classes offered for teens in the parishes and first communion and confirmation classes to be taught under the auspices of the priest, not through the parochial school.[/quote]

I wouldn't say that all students at Catholic schools are worldly. Even so, worldliness isn't always incompatible with avoiding grave sin and living a life of grace in Christ, though worldliness certainly doesn't help.

I wouldn't say all students of Catholic schools are apathetic, either. Most vocations to the priesthood and religious life come from Catholic schools, at least in my diocese.

[LouisvilleFan]

Down south we build us a big ol' tent, fry up some fish, give the preachah man a mic, and invite the whole town!

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1881119' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:21 PM']Personally, I think we already have the two things it takes to re-invigorate the Church. The Priesthood and the Family. Two divinely founded institutions. The only way liturgical and doctrinal dissent will end is with properly formed, holy priests. The best way to fill the Church with young people is to raise them in devout, holy families. I also think the Church has given us the perfect models to follow, St. John Vianney and the Holy Family of Nazareth.[/quote]

This is all good stuff, of course... I don't disagree with the line of thinking, but I will question a couple of things. For one, let's keep in mind that dissent will never end in this world. Sin is part and parcel with being members of a divine body in a fallen world. However, it can be controlled and it shouldn't be tolerated on a wide scale. Even better if our culture loves and seeks truth for the sake of love for God and mankind; this is what we can hope for in this world.

Second, are holy priests the [i]only[/i] way to reign in dissent? I ask not to downplay the role of priests, but I do believe that in Church history we have seen times when the laypeople were the ones who restored the Church. How can we talk about restoring a Church without considering St. Francis of Assisi, who was never ordained a priest and submitted to ordination as a deacon out of love for the Church (to be allowed to preach at Mass).

In other words, God will work through whatever instrument he finds willing, be it the pope, a king, a priest, or a young child. So the first step is simple: prayer. Look at the success of 40 Days for Life... the whole purpose is simply to pray. I imagine if parishes and dioceses were intentional about prayer in a similar way, the Holy Spirit might open up a can o' Pentecost on yo' town.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1881136' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:51 PM']I think liturgical reform-of-the-reform and improved catechesis are necessary.

Some liturgical reforms I think are needed:
-Communion on the tongue only
-Communion kneeling except for those physically incapable
-Administration of Communion by priests and deacons only at all regular liturgies
-Communion paten always used during distribution of Communion
-Only males serving Mass
-Latin used for the forms of all the Sacraments (except Matrimony)

Ideally, I would like the usus antiquior to be the regular way to celebrate the Roman Liturgy.[/quote]

That's all fine and good, but the problem is these liturgical changes rarely occur with any catechesis or reasoning. People find this very frustrating, which only aggravates the underlying spiritual issues of poor discipleship and pride.

I also think if a priest wants to use only boys as altar servers, he needs to find an acceptable role for girls who are used to serving. This wasn't a problem in the past because that expectation didn't exist, but now it does and it needs to be addressed somehow. Collecting and bringing gifts are one possibility. Perhaps a prayer and service ministry. There needs to be some way to help girls grow in their role as much as boys are growing in their's, both to achieve a good spiritual end and to help alleviate the griping parents who want their daughters to do something at Mass.

Edited June 2, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[StColette]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1881138' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:55 AM']Religion classes in Catholic schools are an important part of this.[/quote]

Not when the Religion teachers themselves are poorly Catechized or not properly trained to begin with.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1881165' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:41 PM']I also think if a priest wants to use only boys as altar servers, he needs to find an acceptable role for girls who are used to serving. This wasn't a problem in the past because that expectation didn't exist, but now it does and it needs to be addressed somehow. Collecting and bringing gifts are one possibility. Perhaps a prayer and service ministry. There needs to be some way to help girls grow in their role as much as boys are growing in their's, both to achieve a good spiritual end and to help alleviate the griping parents who want their daughters to do something at Mass.[/quote]

Exactly, especially because the girls (and perhaps their families) would take it personally - this is why, as you said, catechism is gravely needed.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1881165' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:41 PM']That's all fine and good, but the problem is these liturgical changes rarely occur with any catechesis or reasoning. People find this very frustrating, which only aggravates the underlying spiritual issues of poor discipleship and pride.

I also think if a priest wants to use only boys as altar servers, he needs to find an acceptable role for girls who are used to serving. This wasn't a problem in the past because that expectation didn't exist, but now it does and it needs to be addressed somehow. Collecting and bringing gifts are one possibility. Perhaps a prayer and service ministry. There should be some way to help girls grow in their role as much as boys are growing in their's.[/quote]

I said that I thought there needed to be improved catechesis as well, if you didn't see that. In my experience with the ordinary form, these kind of changes [i]do[/i] come with explanation from the parish priest.

There are many ways that girls can help with the liturgy. The most obvious way is to become a member of the choir, chanting the Ordinary (though not the Propers, which should be chanted by a schola cantorum).

Edited June 2, 2009 by Resurrexi