Operation Revival

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1881476' date='Jun 2 2009, 08:24 PM']Were you told to stand and kneel in those places "because the Vatican says so."? Even saying that would be giving a decent reason to kneel and stand at those times.[/quote]

No, because "the archbishop says so." The main difference from most other American dioceses is after the Peace and Our Father, we kneel for the raising of the host, "Lord, I am not worthy..." and the priest's Communion. After his Communion, we stand throughout reception of Communion, then we have the option of sitting or kneeling during the period of silence following Communion.

What I like about this is the short period of kneeling for the priest's Communion emphasizes what we say, that we are not worthy. However, there's obvious confusion about when exactly we should stand... there are always a few people who jump up like a spider bit their butt before the priest even swallows the host while others remain kneeling at least until he drinks the cup. Of course, the latter is more reverent and respectful, but there doesn't seem to be specific instruction either way.

But outside of the vague instructions, there was absolutely no teaching as to why our bishop desires this change in liturgical posture. How are we the laypeople supposed to gear our minds and hearts to the spiritual intention of our posture if we are clueless about the reasoning behind it? "The Vatican says so" or "the archbishop says so" means zilch... we want to know why these authorities say so. After all, we are not three-year-old children who are forced to take our parents' word at face value. We are baptized and confirmed out of the world and into the Kingdom of God. We've been given the grace to know Christ and witness to Him to a fallen world. We need to understand why we worship the way we do.

Edited June 3, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1881655' date='Jun 3 2009, 12:13 AM']I've heard of places have some great success with programs designed for girls, where the girls help with the decoration of the Church and things like that --for example, they help make the altar cloths. And I agree, since it has become typical for girls to be servers, they would now need to find a role for them.[/quote]

That's a great idea... you'd think with so many gay priests, we wouldn't have so many ugly churches. It's like we worship in bachelor pads.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1881708' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:10 PM']When my grandma went to high school, she paid $100/yr. and she earned half of that by helping before and after school with cleaning and such. When I went to Catholic school, we paid around $8,000 (although I did get a couple $500 scholarships a couple of years). I was confused once, about how inflation had caused tuition to increase THAT much (I mean, it was 45 years, but STILL, that's a LOT). Then it was pointed out to me, the Sisters taught my Grandma. Honestly, not that I think that the Sisters should be paid less than they're worth, but I think it would be good for a lot more schools to be able to be run by the religious, if it would keep costs lower, so that more kids would have the opportunity to attend a Catholic school. (I also, in my mind, have myself convinced that things would be way more orthodox that way, though I know that wouldn't necessarily be the case...)[/quote]

The increase was because of nuns. Lay teachers cost more. When I was in school, half the teachers were nuns who lived in the convent on the grounds. Much cheaper. Lay teachers have to have such silly things like health care for their families and a living wage so they can pay rent and pensions. Now that all the teachers are lay, it just costs so much more. We got away with an unrealistically cheap education.

[MithLuin]

Yes, as a lay teacher at a Catholic school, I can assure you that teacher salary is the main expense in running the school. Very few religious orders have enough sisters available to staff a school, so that is no longer an option. Schools have to be creative in finding funding.

One option is volunteer teachers. You take young people who are just/recently out of college, and give them some basic training. You give them a place to live and a stipend to live on, and for a much reduced price, you have a worker for the year. Here are some Catholic groups that do that:

[url="http://www.lasallianvolunteers.org/#"]LaSallian Volunteers[/url]
[url="http://www.jesuitvolunteers.org/"]Jesuit Volunteer Corps[/url] (not solely for teaching, but does place volunteers in schools)
[url="http://www.ndm.edu/Academics/CertificatePrograms/Teachingcertificates/operationteach.cfm"]Operation Teach[/url] (a local effort only, similar to 'Teach for America')

Parishes (or dioceses) funding schools is also essential for keeping the costs down. Some proposed voucher programs would allow state aid to reach the Catholic schools, but this is problematic because of some of the likely strings attached. In my area, the state will pay for (some) textbooks to be used in the schools. Private donors funding scholarships for needy students also helps to keep Catholic education from being for the 'priveledged' only. One innovative school model gets local businesses to support Catholic education: [url="http://www.cristorey.net/"]Cristo Rey[/url], the Jesuit school in inner city Chicago that incorporates a work study element into its college prep curriculum.


Education is an important part of revival, certainly. People must know the gospel before they can live it in any kind of authentic way. But all revival relies on prayer and an earnest seeking of the will of Christ. Holy priests and holy families are both essential. Isn't this coming year the year of St. John Vianney? That should tell us something! The Church is in need of his witness at this time. My father was ordained a deacon this past month, and during the ordination, each newly ordained deacon was given a book of the gospels, with the instructions: "believe what you read, teach what you believe, and practice what you teach." That is a recipe for revival, is it not?

[OraProMe]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1881949' date='Jun 3 2009, 11:13 AM']That's a great idea... you'd think with so many gay priests, we wouldn't have so many ugly churches. It's like we worship in bachelor pads.[/quote]

LOL
HAHAHAHAHA

best.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1881949' date='Jun 3 2009, 11:13 AM']That's a great idea... you'd think with so many gay priests, we wouldn't have so many ugly churches. It's like we worship in bachelor pads.[/quote]
But most priests aren't the ones who decorate the churches. Usually, at least what I have seen, it's one or more women in their late 50s, who think they are being "modern."

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1882028' date='Jun 3 2009, 12:00 PM']Yes, as a lay teacher at a Catholic school, I can assure you that teacher salary is the main expense in running the school. Very few religious orders have enough sisters available to staff a school, so that is no longer an option. Schools have to be creative in finding funding.

One option is volunteer teachers. You take young people who are just/recently out of college, and give them some basic training. You give them a place to live and a stipend to live on, and for a much reduced price, you have a worker for the year. Here are some Catholic groups that do that:

[url="http://www.lasallianvolunteers.org/#"]LaSallian Volunteers[/url]
[url="http://www.jesuitvolunteers.org/"]Jesuit Volunteer Corps[/url] (not solely for teaching, but does place volunteers in schools)
[url="http://www.ndm.edu/Academics/CertificatePrograms/Teachingcertificates/operationteach.cfm"]Operation Teach[/url] (a local effort only, similar to 'Teach for America')

Parishes (or dioceses) funding schools is also essential for keeping the costs down. Some proposed voucher programs would allow state aid to reach the Catholic schools, but this is problematic because of some of the likely strings attached. In my area, the state will pay for (some) textbooks to be used in the schools. Private donors funding scholarships for needy students also helps to keep Catholic education from being for the 'priveledged' only. One innovative school model gets local businesses to support Catholic education: [url="http://www.cristorey.net/"]Cristo Rey[/url], the Jesuit school in inner city Chicago that incorporates a work study element into its college prep curriculum.


Education is an important part of revival, certainly. People must know the gospel before they can live it in any kind of authentic way. But all revival relies on prayer and an earnest seeking of the will of Christ. Holy priests and holy families are both essential. Isn't this coming year the year of St. John Vianney? That should tell us something! The Church is in need of his witness at this time. My father was ordained a deacon this past month, and during the ordination, each newly ordained deacon was given a book of the gospels, with the instructions: "believe what you read, teach what you believe, and practice what you teach." That is a recipe for revival, is it not?[/quote]
As a side note, re-reading my post, I feel I should make clear that I am very appreciative of the teachers that Catholic schools DO have, because I know that many of them took a pay cut to teach at a Catholic school, and most of them are fantastic teachers. It just saddens me that it is so expensive to go to Catholic school, and I have friends who have not been able to because of the cost, which, even with scholarships was too much.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1882267' date='Jun 3 2009, 03:59 PM']As a side note, re-reading my post, I feel I should make clear that I am very appreciative of the teachers that Catholic schools DO have, because I know that many of them took a pay cut to teach at a Catholic school, and most of them are fantastic teachers. It just saddens me that it is so expensive to go to Catholic school, and I have friends who have not been able to because of the cost, which, even with scholarships was too much.[/quote]

Oh, ditto for me. I know that Catholic teachers take a serious cut in pay and benefits to work in our schools. It's just that obviously nuns and monks in the past were cheaper. Then again, everything was. We got by with a hand cranked mimeograph machine, a chalk board and red playground balls. Now they have to computers, laser printers, multi-media everything. All that costs money.

[LouisvilleFan]

We all agree that orthodox catechesis, faithful priests, and beautiful liturgies are key to reviving faith in a diocese that feels like a Dark Night of the Living Dead. Of course, the immediate observation and frustration is that none of these things are "controlled" by any one person, or even a few people. A good bishop is very helpful, but even then he has to get hundreds of individuals at all the parishes and schools working with him. Not an easy task... and the bottom line is, each of us has a fairly limited influence on the practices of an entire diocese, much less the spiritual condition of thousands (if not millions) of faithful. Hence, with these matters largely out of our control, there's little challenge to us personally to do anything about them. Even people who are employed by parishes to teach catechesis and organize liturgies struggle to improve things because they have to work with others who have their own competing ideas. So let's set all that aside and get down to the things we [i]can[/i] change...

The more challenging question for us is, what can we do within our limited sphere of influence to evangelize the faith and revive the faithful?

ooo... "Evangelize the Faith and Revive the Faithful"... I should write capital campaign slogans

Edited June 4, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1881683' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:31 PM']What does everyone think of Catholic schools only accepting children from actively Catholic families? The Catholic school and the Catholic family need to work in conjunction with eachother, obviously a CINO family doesn't see this as important.[/quote]

It's not always possible for a school to determine what families are made up of orthodox Catholic members. In my diocese, if a family tithes to its parish, the parish pays for the children of the family to attend Catholic schools. I think that this is a good and does help families get involved in their parish. However, there are some children even in tithing families who do not believe what the Church teaches. This could be because the children are rebelling against their parents' orthodox beliefs or because the parents themselves do not believe the teachings of the Church.