Operation Revival

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='StColette' post='1881166' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:42 PM']Not when the Religion teachers themselves are poorly Catechized or not properly trained to begin with.[/quote]

Improving the education of religion teachers could be a part of improving catechesis for students who attend Catholic schools.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Resurrexi

[HisChildForever]

Let's remember that there are public (and private) school children who are Catholic, and in need of good catechism classes.

[CatherineM]

We require "licenses" for certain types of teachers at the seminary level. I would like to see it required all the way through. We have to take a license to drive a car, why not take a test to prove we know enough theology before being allowed to teach religion in a Catholic school, or to teach CCD or sacramental prep classes? Additionally, if necessary, sign a pledge to only teach in line with the church's teachings. I'd sign it. How about standardized texts for each grade level being required? If we can't find enough teachers who can pass the test, then churches will have to double up and share. I'd rather see one full time teacher doing prep every day of the week at a different church, and being paid a living wage to do so, than unqualified volunteers doing it. If the archdiocese has to help poorer churches afford a qualified teacher, so be it. Do this, and in 20-30 years, a lot of the problems we have in the church right now will start to fade.

[VoTeckam]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1881224' date='Jun 2 2009, 02:55 PM']We require "licenses" for certain types of teachers at the seminary level. I would like to see it required all the way through. We have to take a license to drive a car, why not take a test to prove we know enough theology before being allowed to teach religion in a Catholic school, or to teach CCD or sacramental prep classes? Additionally, if necessary, sign a pledge to only teach in line with the church's teachings. I'd sign it. How about standardized texts for each grade level being required? If we can't find enough teachers who can pass the test, then churches will have to double up and share. I'd rather see one full time teacher doing prep every day of the week at a different church, and being paid a living wage to do so, than unqualified volunteers doing it. If the archdiocese has to help poorer churches afford a qualified teacher, so be it. Do this, and in 20-30 years, a lot of the problems we have in the church right now will start to fade.[/quote]

Yes! Agreed all around. I think many parishes have fallen into a rut where they are satisfied with offering any formation and disregarding quality. I sat with my faince through RCIA 3 years ago and was astounded at the misinformation.There are so many of us with theology degrees who are fighting to get our foot in the door and competing against an older generation with no eduaction but with friends in the parish or a gift for arts and crafts. Imagine how many openings there would be if every staff memeber or catechist had to prove their ability and fidelity.

Ok so that last bit is a touch selfish But Catherine's idea is still a good one.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1881170' date='Jun 2 2009, 01:48 PM']I said that I thought there needed to be improved catechesis as well, if you didn't see that. In my experience with the ordinary form, these kind of changes [i]do[/i] come with explanation from the parish priest.[/quote]

Yeah, our experiences are very different, but I'm glad it's better in some places. Last year we had a change in our liturgy that nobody explained at Mass. We were simply told, "kneel here, stand here," but even the instructions weren't alltogether clear, leaving people uncertain on what we're supposed to do and completely clueless as to why.

[picchick]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1881119' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:21 AM']LouisvilleFan and I were discussing this some time ago on another thread. How would you fix the deplorable state of the Church? He suggested much more emphasis on technology and evangelization, but he can elaborate here if he wants.

Personally, I think we already have the two things it takes to re-invigorate the Church. The Priesthood and the Family. Two divinely founded institutions. The only way liturgical and doctrinal dissent will end is with properly formed, holy priests. The best way to fill the Church with young people is to raise them in devout, holy families. I also think the Church has given us the perfect models to follow, St. John Vianney and the Holy Family of Nazareth.

I think if we create a culture built around these two great gifts we can't go wrong.

Added onto that youth groups, proper catechetics, the consecration of Russia, the founding of new religious orders etc. would help a bunch

What do you guys think needs to be done?[/quote]

Not to start a fight but I believe that Russia is already consecrated.

I think that more families need to become religious and teach religion to their kids. No more fruity catechism. I was taught my religion at home. I had to memorize catechism questions, I had to read the history of the Church, I had to learn my faith and why we believe this that and the other thing. I had to understand. When I taught CCD, catechism was not stressed, the kids were not required to know their faith (like be quizzed on catechism questions) for Confirmation and First Communion.

I think that there needs to be more structured set ups for adults to learn the faith. I think that it should be led by a priest at that point.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1881236' date='Jun 2 2009, 02:25 PM']Yeah, our experiences are very different, but I'm glad it's better in some places. Last year we had a change in our liturgy that nobody explained at Mass. We were simply told, "kneel here, stand here," but even the instructions weren't alltogether clear, leaving people uncertain on what we're supposed to do and completely clueless as to why.[/quote]

Were you told to stand and kneel in those places "because the Vatican says so."? Even saying that would be giving a decent reason to kneel and stand at those times.

[picchick]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1881476' date='Jun 2 2009, 07:24 PM']Were you told to stand and kneel in those places "because the Vatican says so."? Even saying that would be giving a decent reason to kneel and stand at those times.[/quote]

I disagree. You have to understand why you do things. How else do you explain it to others? And I do not follow blindly. If I do not understand something I will find out the who what where when and why.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='picchick' post='1881430' date='Jun 2 2009, 06:18 PM']Not to start a fight but I believe that Russia is already consecrated.

I think that more families need to become religious and teach religion to their kids. No more fruity catechism. I was taught my religion at home. I had to memorize catechism questions, I had to read the history of the Church, I had to learn my faith and why we believe this that and the other thing. I had to understand. When I taught CCD, catechism was not stressed, the kids were not required to know their faith (like be quizzed on catechism questions) for Confirmation and First Communion.

I think that there needs to be more structured set ups for adults to learn the faith. I think that it should be led by a priest at that point.[/quote]

uhhh this is a sticky topic but I'd really like to see Russia consecrated by name and in union with all the bishops. Not just by the pope and included in "the world". That's not what Our Lady asked for at Fatima.

And I completely agree with you about families needing to take their role as the primary educator of their children seriously. Sending them to a catholic school and dragging them to Mass just isn't enough.

It'd be great if each parish had a support and resource group to aid families.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1881138' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:55 AM']Religion classes in Catholic schools are an important part of this.[/quote]
IF they are being taught correctly...some of my religion teachers didn't even have teaching licenses (it's impossible to learn anything when the teacher cannot even keep order in the room). Others were simply teaching whatever they felt like. I have attended Catholic schools my entire life (I am now in grad school, making this my 17th year in a Catholic educational institution) and I am put to shame by the knowledge of the kids I used to babysit (as in 8, 9, 10 yr olds).


[quote name='OraProMe' post='1881149' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:16 PM']I'm not sure about Catholic schools. I think it's hard for a few good kids to learn in an environment where all their peers are apathetic and worldly.

I'd like to see more religious classes offered for teens in the parishes and first communion and confirmation classes to be taught under the auspices of the priest, not through the parochial school.[/quote]
It depends on where you are here, if they are taught in the school or in the parish. Although, either place, they are rarely (that I have heard of anyway) taught directly by a priest. Usually it's someone hired by the parish to teach it, if it's through the parish.

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1881157' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:27 PM']I wouldn't say that all students at Catholic schools are worldly. Even so, worldliness isn't always incompatible with avoiding grave sin and living a life of grace in Christ, though worldliness certainly doesn't help.

I wouldn't say all students of Catholic schools are apathetic, either. Most vocations to the priesthood and religious life come from Catholic schools, at least in my diocese.[/quote]
Consider yourself VERY blessed. I know of at least one person who has LEFT the Catholic school system where I am from, because it was inhibiting her discerning of her vocation.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1881165' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:41 PM']That's all fine and good, but the problem is these liturgical changes rarely occur with any catechesis or reasoning. People find this very frustrating, which only aggravates the underlying spiritual issues of poor discipleship and pride.

I also think if a priest wants to use only boys as altar servers, he needs to find an acceptable role for girls who are used to serving. This wasn't a problem in the past because that expectation didn't exist, but now it does and it needs to be addressed somehow. Collecting and bringing gifts are one possibility. Perhaps a prayer and service ministry. There needs to be some way to help girls grow in their role as much as boys are growing in their's, both to achieve a good spiritual end and to help alleviate the griping parents who want their daughters to do something at Mass.[/quote]
I've heard of places have some great success with programs designed for girls, where the girls help with the decoration of the Church and things like that --for example, they help make the altar cloths. And I agree, since it has become typical for girls to be servers, they would now need to find a role for them.

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1881171' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:50 PM']Improving the education of religion teachers could be a part of improving catechesis for students who attend Catholic schools. [/quote]
Very true, but easier said than done, unfortunately.


[quote name='CatherineM' post='1881224' date='Jun 2 2009, 01:55 PM']We require "licenses" for certain types of teachers at the seminary level. I would like to see it required all the way through. We have to take a license to drive a car, why not take a test to prove we know enough theology before being allowed to teach religion in a Catholic school, or to teach CCD or sacramental prep classes? Additionally, if necessary, sign a pledge to only teach in line with the church's teachings. I'd sign it. How about standardized texts for each grade level being required? If we can't find enough teachers who can pass the test, then churches will have to double up and share. I'd rather see one full time teacher doing prep every day of the week at a different church, and being paid a living wage to do so, than unqualified volunteers doing it. If the archdiocese has to help poorer churches afford a qualified teacher, so be it. Do this, and in 20-30 years, a lot of the problems we have in the church right now will start to fade.[/quote]
I know it was proposed at one point that before anyone could get confirmed in our parish, they needed to take a test, and they would start implementing testing grade by grade in the CCD. Unfortunately, I don't believe this idea was ever taken all the way through, though I think they did the testing one year.

I also think it would be a great idea to have the teachers taking tests, before teaching. I also think it's ridiculous that we're leaving something of this importance to anyone who feels like teaching, and there seems to be more concern about getting a body to fill the position, than if said body is actually teaching anything worthwhile.


[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1881476' date='Jun 2 2009, 07:24 PM']Were you told to stand and kneel in those places "because the Vatican says so."? Even saying that would be giving a decent reason to kneel and stand at those times.[/quote]
Um...not really. That is precisely the reason we HAVE so many problems. Explanations such as "The Vatican says so" are not explanations. People want to know why, and want to understand why they are doing things, otherwise it just becomes a motion, and is completely meaningless.

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1881528' date='Jun 2 2009, 09:02 PM']uhhh this is a sticky topic but I'd really like to see Russia consecrated by name and in union with all the bishops. Not just by the pope and included in "the world". That's not what Our Lady asked for at Fatima.

And I completely agree with you about families needing to take their role as the primary educator of their children seriously. [b]Sending them to a catholic school and dragging them to Mass just isn't enough.[/b]

It'd be great if each parish had a support and resource group to aid families.[/quote]
Especially when those Catholic schools just turn them against the faith.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1881655' date='Jun 2 2009, 10:13 PM']I've heard of places have some great success with programs designed for girls, where the girls help with the decoration of the Church and things like that --for example, they help make the altar cloths. And I agree, since it has become typical for girls to be servers, they would now need to find a role for them.[/quote]

That's called a sacrastin. Back in the ice ages when only boys were allowed to be what we actually called altar boys, that's what the girls did. Boys could serve the altar starting in about 5th grade if I remember correctly, and the girls could sign up to be sacrastins in 7th grade. We had a nun over us, and a 7th grader always worked with a more experienced 8th grader. We filled the cruets, and put out all the altar stuff. We also laid out the proper vestments for the priest and learned to clean everything, and how to take care of stuff. There were only 5 girls in my class who signed up, and I think we are the only 5 from my class who are still practicing Catholics. I wonder if there is a connection?

[MissScripture]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1881667' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:25 PM']That's called a sacrastin. Back in the ice ages when only boys were allowed to be what we actually called altar boys, that's what the girls did. Boys could serve the altar starting in about 5th grade if I remember correctly, and the girls could sign up to be sacrastins in 7th grade. We had a nun over us, and a 7th grader always worked with a more experienced 8th grader. We filled the cruets, and put out all the altar stuff. We also laid out the proper vestments for the priest and learned to clean everything, and how to take care of stuff. There were only 5 girls in my class who signed up, and I think we are the only 5 from my class who are still practicing Catholics. I wonder if there is a connection?[/quote]
Well, in whatever I was reading about this, it had a different name. lol. But that makes sense. I wish a nun were in charge of decorating my parish at home...last November, for thanksgiving, they had it done up in a harvest theme. In front of the altar, there was a bushel basked painted orange, with a giant jack-o-lantern face painted on it! After Mass, my mom went and turned the thing around for the next Masses, so you couldn't see the face. It was awful!

[OraProMe]

What does everyone think of Catholic schools only accepting children from actively Catholic families? The Catholic school and the Catholic family need to work in conjunction with eachother, obviously a CINO family doesn't see this as important.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1881683' date='Jun 2 2009, 10:31 PM']What does everyone think of Catholic schools only accepting children from actively Catholic families? The Catholic school and the Catholic family need to work in conjunction with eachother, obviously a CINO family doesn't see this as important.[/quote]

I would have loved my kids to be able to go to Catholic school. They actually went to school with more Catholics in the public school because in that part of Florida, the Catholic schools were just a place for white folks to keep their kids away from black kids and poor white kids. $7000 each wasn't something I could do with two kids and only $150 total in child support from their dads. When I was going to parochial school, there was only 2 protestant kids, and they didn't start until 5th grade when OKC started busing.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1881683' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:31 PM']What does everyone think of Catholic schools only accepting children from actively Catholic families? The Catholic school and the Catholic family need to work in conjunction with eachother, obviously a CINO family doesn't see this as important.[/quote]
At my high school, anyone could attend, though people registered in certain parishes would get a "discount." This is because those parishes helped fund the high school. I know that there were/are several families who are registered at these parishes, merely for that reason. I think that is completely unfair, as they are not really contributing to the parish. However, I have no problem with anyone attending. I just feel there needs to be more emphasis on the religious aspects, which was lost at my high school, opting instead to make everyone feel "comfortable" and worrying too much about accomodating not offending the kids of other faiths, losing much of our own Catholic identity.

I also think that the kids could have a great influence on their families. If their family is not practicing, but they become interested in the faith, they could bring their whole family back. That was actually the case for a whole confirmed at my parish at home this Easter. He happened to go to Mass once with a friend and thought it was so cool, he convinced his parents to go to Mass with him. They were all confirmed! However, to be in a position to draw people into the faith, I think a lot of schools need to do a LOT of work!

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1881698' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:41 PM']I would have loved my kids to be able to go to Catholic school. They actually went to school with more Catholics in the public school because in that part of Florida, the Catholic schools were just a place for white folks to keep their kids away from black kids and poor white kids. $7000 each wasn't something I could do with two kids and only $150 total in child support from their dads. When I was going to parochial school, there was only 2 protestant kids, and they didn't start until 5th grade when OKC started busing.[/quote]
When my grandma went to high school, she paid $100/yr. and she earned half of that by helping before and after school with cleaning and such. When I went to Catholic school, we paid around $8,000 (although I did get a couple $500 scholarships a couple of years). I was confused once, about how inflation had caused tuition to increase THAT much (I mean, it was 45 years, but STILL, that's a LOT). Then it was pointed out to me, the Sisters taught my Grandma. Honestly, not that I think that the Sisters should be paid less than they're worth, but I think it would be good for a lot more schools to be able to be run by the religious, if it would keep costs lower, so that more kids would have the opportunity to attend a Catholic school. (I also, in my mind, have myself convinced that things would be way more orthodox that way, though I know that wouldn't necessarily be the case...)