No Jokes At Mass: Bishop Porteous

[musturde]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1887413' date='Jun 9 2009, 08:41 PM']Jokes are profane. Mass is sacred is likely what the bishop is getting at. Jokes and ruin the atmosphere of prayer and thanksgiving for having just received Jesus Christ in the Eucharist.[/quote]

Mass is sacred. I also think laughter is sacred, even after Mass. I've had a good laugh in the middle of prayer and I think of it as something that adds to it, not something that substracts from it. If a joke is profane, how would the music at a lifeteen Mass not be profane? Besides, once the Mass is over, the Mass is over. The Church is a building, Jesus is more true in us after we recieve him than in the actual building. At least this is how I see it.


The Bishop has the right to have his opinion. However, I don't think the criticism of others was really needed.

Edited June 10, 2009 by musturde

[cassandragirl]

[quote name='cappie' post='1887352' date='Jun 9 2009, 05:50 PM']Jokes at the end of Mass are not appropriate, Sydney Auxiliary Bishop Julian Porteous says.

Bishop Porteous told the Sydney Morning Herald that Mass was not the venue for the priest to indulge his own personality.

"A religious ceremony, for Catholics a Mass, is a sacred event, and therefore the whole context of celebration should be one that engenders respect, appreciation of the divine and a whole sense of reverence for holy things, that is always got to be the ground in which a priest approaches his duties.

"There has been a tendency for people to feel a joke at the end of the Mass is something to leave people with a smile, but I personally don't think it is appropriate."

Preserving the dignity of the occasion should be uppermost in the mind of a priest.

"There can be place for a comment which may be a truth or insight into the foibles of humanity, but jokes, if they are corny and self serving, are inappropriate," Bishop Porteous said.

Bishop Porteous was agreeing with similar sentiments expressed by the Anglican Bishop of South Sydney, Robert Forsyth.

The Bishop of South Sydney, Robert Forsyth, says there is nothing funny in "lame-fisted attempts" to crack jokes and be funny during services and church meetings. Humour has its place, but God and church, he says, is no laughing matter.

"I am frankly sick of 'leaders' ruining the atmosphere of the meeting/service and disrupting the focus on God with half-baked comic lines," he wrote for a Sydney Anglican online ministry resource guide. "Or they detract from my reflection upon some important point made in the sermon with smart cracks or attempts to make funny comments about the preacher or the sermon."

This, he said, interfered with the congregation's relationship with God.

[url="http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=14310"]http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=14310[/url][/quote]

I think wat the bishop is trying to get away from is the priest thinking it is all about him and forgetting what the Mass is about and what just happened moments before. A joke during the homily makes sense if it leads into the point of the homily, but I have heard too many priests tell jokes at the end of mass - it becomes the father bob show - as a habit and it is disruptive because people know it is coming and they dread it or look forward to it so you have kind of preempted the main event.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='musturde' post='1887387' date='Jun 9 2009, 07:47 PM']I can understand this bishop not doing this himself... but criticizing other priests? Isn't that stretching it a bit? I mean, technically, isn't laughing also a way of worship? After mass, Jesus is within us, I don't think he'd want us to reject laughter in his presence.[/quote]

I think the Bishop is criticizing the trend of turning the Mass into a show. Holy Mass should be a prayer orientated towards God not an opportunity for the priest to "indulge his personality" as the bishop said.

Cardinal Ratzinger said that applause or anything orientated towards the glory of humans during the liturgy is a sure sign that it's being celebrated incorrectly and a sense of the sacred has been lost.

[musturde]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1887428' date='Jun 9 2009, 09:05 PM']I think the Bishop is criticizing the trend of turning the Mass into a show. Holy Mass should be a prayer orientated towards God not an opportunity for the priest to "indulge his personality" as the bishop said.

Cardinal Ratzinger said that applause or anything orientated towards the glory of humans during the liturgy is a sure sign that it's being celebrated incorrectly and a sense of the sacred has been lost.[/quote]

That could include jokes in the homily too.

Besides, what's to say that the jokes aren't done in the glory of God?
It would take a lot more than a simple joke to make the mass into a show revolving around the priest.

[Deus te Amat]

[quote name='musturde' post='1887417' date='Jun 9 2009, 08:47 PM']Mass is sacred. I also think laughter is sacred, even after Mass. I've had a good laugh in the middle of prayer and I think of it as something that adds to it, not something that substracts from it. If a joke is profane, how would the music at a lifeteen Mass not be profane? Besides, once the Mass is over, the Mass is over. [i]The Church is a building, Jesus is more true in us after we recieve him than in the actual building. At least this is how I see it. [/i][/quote]

After receiving Communion, we become Living Tabernacles. The "building", as you call the Church, has within it a Tabernacle, which houses the Body of Christ. As do we. The Tabernacle within the Church makes the Church alive. I for one have noticed a different feel to a Catholic Church than the atmosphere found in a non-Catholic church....

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='musturde' post='1887412' date='Jun 9 2009, 08:40 PM']The alcohol's free too![/quote]

The only time alcohol is consumed during Mass is when the priest pours wine into the sacred vessels during the ablutions, which occur [b]after the distribution of Holy Communion[/b].

Edited June 10, 2009 by Resurrexi

[jeffpugh]

My bishop sometimes drops a Catholic joke into the homily, if it's relevant. He definitely keeps the focus on the sacred, though.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='kujo' post='1887361' date='Jun 9 2009, 06:58 PM']The pastor at my home parish is famous for having a joke or a funny story that serves as an introduction into his homily. Sometimes they're funny; sometimes they are LAAMMEEE. But I think it's a good segue and they're good for the parish.[/quote]

Ditto here. I think it comes down to what the joke is, what the point is, and how it ties in to the rest of the homily. As long as we are ultimately led to a theologically sound point, I have no problem with it! Respect for the sacred doesn't always have to mean solemn and rigid, IMHO.

[quote name='Era Might' post='1887385' date='Jun 9 2009, 07:44 PM']I just want to point out how hilariously cool it is that Bishop Porteous used the word "corny."[/quote]

!

And let's face it, sometimes humor is just warranted. For example:

Lector doing announcements: Due to recent concerns about the swine flu, we encourage you to use caution when receiving Holy Communion from the chalice.

My pastor: And this is [i]after[/i] we've all drank from it...

[Hassan]

[quote name='musturde' post='1887387' date='Jun 9 2009, 07:47 PM']I can understand this bishop not doing this himself... but criticizing other priests? Isn't that stretching it a bit? I mean, technically, isn't laughing also a way of worship? After mass, Jesus is within us, I don't think he'd want us to reject laughter in his presence.[/quote]


I had two Passionists at my home Parish. One did not joke at the end at mass and one did. The one who didn't was somewhat vain and such, the one who did was very humble and kind. He was very involved in trying to bring the teens to the Church. All I'm saying, and obviously my oppinion carries very little weight, is that it depends on the individual Priest, in my experience, regarding the atmosphere. He would make the Parish laugh and still set an example regarding the best virtues of Christianity. There other didn't but one really didn't feel that the Mass was solemn, he just kind of rushed through it after a long speech about all the good deeds he was going to be doing that day.

[Nihil Obstat]

There is certainly more than one way to ruin the reverent and solemn atmosphere of a Mass.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1887546' date='Jun 9 2009, 11:58 PM']There is certainly more than one way to ruin the reverent and solemn atmosphere of a Mass.[/quote]
[img]http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images%20(101-200)/199-ClownMass.jpg[/img]

Edited June 10, 2009 by USAirwaysIHS

[Nihil Obstat]

*shudder*

[OraProMe]

I hope he was forced to resign, that is disgusting.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='musturde' post='1887444' date='Jun 9 2009, 08:21 PM']That could include jokes in the homily too.

Besides, what's to say that the jokes aren't done in the glory of God?
It would take a lot more than a simple joke to make the mass into a show revolving around the priest.[/quote]

Jokes in the homily are fine aslong as they're relevant. I know a priest who fills his homily with anecdotes and not only are they funny but they also drive the message home.

The idea of having a joke anywhere other than the homily shouldn't even enter the discussion. The Mass is an official prayer of the Church, throughout it he should stick to what is written in the rubrics and GIRM.

[Luigi]

With three readings and a psalm available to preach about, I'll never understand the need that some preachers have to throw in a joke, be it before Mass, during the homily, or at the end of Mass (although I have to say that I've seen precious little of joking at the end of Mass).