MissyP89 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 God speaks to me through music all the time. As others have said, coincidence or not, it is obviously giving you a lot to think about. Follow that lead--it certainly isn't unhealthy! I admire your persistence, btw. Prayers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1889523' date='Jun 13 2009, 12:57 AM']The Church cannot lead us astray. The Bible itself tells us such physical relationships are wrong. Many prayers. [/quote] You see, that kind of "It's right because the pope/bible says so" sickens me and makes the Church seem cultish. It's religion for dumbies. I like to see convincing reasoning behind Christian doctrine. God gave me a brain, I want to use it. Anyway, that's not what this thread is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1889528' date='Jun 13 2009, 01:08 AM']You see, that kind of "It's right because the pope/bible says so" sickens me and makes the Church seem cultish. It's religion for dumbies. I like to see convincing reasoning behind Christian doctrine. God gave me a brain, I want to use it. Anyway, that's not what this thread is about.[/quote] For me, when I doubt an issue, I don't need reasoning why the particular issue must be correct, I just need to remember that: 1.We believe that our Church is the Church founded on the rock of St. Peter, and 2.Jesus gave St. Peter (and his successors) the authority to loose and bind as he/they saw/see fit. and also that if our Church is the true Church, she can teach no wrong. Every teaching the Church has ever had condemns homosexual acts, and for the two reasons I've posted, that's enough for me. Trust me, we all have teachings that ares hard for us to swallow, especially when the teachings contradict what other Christians or what society tells us is acceptable. If you believe that the Catholic Church is indeed Christ's true Church, then you shouldn't have too hard a time accepting her teachings. Following them, we all eventually find, is much...less easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 You are gutsy, sir. We all of us have to deal with obstacles that come between us and union with God. Sometimes they're big, sometimes small, sometimes put there entirely out of our own will, sometimes entirely not, and often somewhere inbetween. But you have real guts that I know I don't have when dealing with the obstacles in my life. "There's no such thing as coincidence, only God-incidence." It's a bit of a generalisation, I know, but in general God isn't given enough credit for the weird and wonderful things that happen in our lives. Whether your recent experiences come from God: I think so. Whether they're from God in an [i]extraordinary[/i] way - not sure. But is that necessary? If this inspires you to live a chaste life out of fear of eternal separation from God, it's a good thing. If that leads you to live a chaste life purely out of love for God, that's even better. Keep praying, and have confidence in Christ. Other than all that, I can't think what I can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1889528' date='Jun 13 2009, 02:08 AM']You see, that kind of "It's right because the pope/bible says so" sickens me and makes the Church seem cultish. It's religion for dumbies. I like to see convincing reasoning behind Christian doctrine. God gave me a brain, I want to use it. Anyway, that's not what this thread is about.[/quote] The Bible is the Word of God. The Word of God says no to homosexual acts. God says no to homosexual acts, thus: homesexual acts are morally wrong. God would not have you do something morally wrong. The Church was founded by Jesus Christ. St. Paul called it the "pillar and foundation of truth." It is without error. It is the spotless Bride of Christ. The Holy Spirit guides it. Logically, if Christ - God Himself - founded it (as we know from God's revelation to us through Scripture, which is His Word) and if the Holy Spirit - God Himself - is leading it and speaking through it (as we know from God's revelation to us through Scripture, which is His Word) then logically the Church will not lead you astray. Yeah, it is not complicated, but that doesn't mean that there isn't reason behind it. Sorry I can't seem to write anything that you don't have an objection to. Continued prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1889561' date='Jun 13 2009, 05:49 AM']The Bible is the Word of God. The Word of God says no to homosexual acts. God says no to homosexual acts, thus: homesexual acts are morally wrong. God would not have you do something morally wrong. The Church was founded by Jesus Christ. St. Paul called it the "pillar and foundation of truth." It is without error. It is the spotless Bride of Christ. The Holy Spirit guides it. Logically, if Christ - God Himself - founded it (as we know from God's revelation to us through Scripture, which is His Word) and if the Holy Spirit - God Himself - is leading it and speaking through it (as we know from God's revelation to us through Scripture, which is His Word) then logically the Church will not lead you astray. Yeah, it is not complicated, but that doesn't mean that there isn't reason behind it. Sorry I can't seem to write anything that you don't have an objection to. Continued prayers. [/quote] Stop preaching to me about things I already know. I've made a lot of sacrifices to follow the Church because I love God and want to keep his word. So you can drop the attitude, alright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lords sheep Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I can understand really struggling to an intellectual assent. Many people in our culture are very emotional, and I find that this often carries over HEAVILY into their faith (which isn't all bad- Love isn't a purely intellectual and rational operation, after all). However, I- like you OraProMe- prefer to have as much intellectual understanding as it possible. Sometimes this is a great strength in my faith, but sometimes it's a weakness. I admire your willingness to submit your life and your heart to the will of God; I can appreciate the struggle, because I've been there too (different issues, but the same battle against sin). One thing that helped me was remember what Mother Theresa said when someone asked her to pray that he might have clarity of God's will. She said: "NO! I will pray that you have trust. You do not need clarity to follow God, just trust!" It's helped me a lot to remember that God doesn't ask me to understand him and all his ways: he just asks that I trust him. To some, this seems like an intellectual cop-out. But it's really an act of love and humility. And God will bless you immensely for undertaking it. In Christ, Lauren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='the lords sheep' post='1889571' date='Jun 13 2009, 01:09 PM']To some, this seems like an intellectual cop-out. But it's really an act of love and humility. And God will bless you immensely for undertaking it.[/quote] Keep praying, as we all pray for you and each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' post='1889569' date='Jun 13 2009, 06:57 AM']Stop preaching to me about things I already know. I've made a lot of sacrifices to follow the Church because I love God and want to keep his word. So you can drop the attitude, alright?[/quote] I wrote what I wrote to show that there was some reason and thought behind it. What I said was not a brainless repetition of some unquestioned or unthought out supposed truth. Your words were very harsh. Sickens. Cultish. Dumbies. "God gave me a brain, I want to use it." Then you said: "I like to see convincing reason behind Christian doctrine." Well, I tried to show what I meant... that there was thought behind it. I tried to show some convincing reason behind why those two comments shouldn't be just thrown away as "cultish" garbage. If you do already know all of this, then I don't understand why you would insinuate that what I wrote resembeled the antics of some brainless, dumb follower in a cult. The harsh words were taken by me as a bit unkind, and if I reacted with an attitude that needs to be dropped it was because those strong words were hurtful to me, when I have had no intention of being unkind to you at all in this thread. I apologise. I think I'll just go back the lame board. Edited June 13, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1889600' date='Jun 13 2009, 08:58 AM']I wrote what I wrote to show that there was some reason and thought behind it. What I said was not a brainless repetition of some unquestioned or unthought out supposed truth. Your words were very harsh. Sickens. Cultish. Dumbies. "God gave me a brain, I want to use it." Then you said: "I like to see convincing reason behind Christian doctrine." Well, I tried to show what I meant... that there was thought behind it. I tried to show some convincing reason behind why those two comments shouldn't be just thrown away as "cultish" garbage. If you do already know all of this, then I don't understand why you would insinuate that what I wrote resembeled the antics of some brainless, dumb follower in a cult. The harsh words were taken by me as a bit unkind, and if I reacted with an attitude that needs to be dropped it was because those strong words were hurtful to me, when I have had no intention of being unkind to you at all in this thread. I apologise. I think I'll just go back the lame board. [/quote] eeeeeeppp. I'm sorry ): I shouldn't have reacted that way. I didn't mean to insinuate anything about you or anyone else. It's just me personally. I've always been a little bit of a rebel I'm sorry if what I said seemed harshed ): Sometimes I'm far to blunt and things don't come out the way I mean them to. Lets say a prayer for eachother and be friends? hahaha Edited June 13, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1888977' date='Jun 12 2009, 09:44 AM']Maybe it's a coincidence. Maybe it's not. The important part is what you take out of it. Even if it is a coincidence, but it still makes you live a better life, then it's from God as surely as a lightning bolt on the road to Damascus.[/quote] Bingo! It may be that you are simply noticing the connections more because you have the topic on your mind, but as Nihil puts it so aptly, it's from God as surely as a lightning bolt on the road to Damascus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1889528' date='Jun 13 2009, 08:08 AM']You see, that kind of "It's right because the pope/bible says so" sickens me and makes the Church seem cultish. It's religion for dumbies. I like to see convincing reasoning behind Christian doctrine. God gave me a brain, I want to use it. Anyway, that's not what this thread is about.[/quote] Wow. Slow down. NOT believing something that came from Christ's mouth is dumb. Believing it because it IS the Word of God-that's not dumb. God gave you a brain, but He also gave straightforward teaching in the Bible. It's as clear as day-the homosexual act is sinful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Noel's angel' post='1889695' date='Jun 13 2009, 11:53 AM']Wow. Slow down. NOT believing something that came from Christ's mouth is dumb. Believing it because it IS the Word of God-that's not dumb. God gave you a brain, but He also gave straightforward teaching in the Bible. It's as clear as day-the homosexual act is sinful.[/quote] Sadly not everything is as black and white as that. What about cultural context? Various interpretations? Seemingly contradictory biblical statements? Dietary laws no longer followed? Past errors of the hierarchy? Changing attitudes towards things such as protestantism? Religious liberty? I'm a questioner, I like to understand and evaluate stuff. If I can't prove my faith wrong then the world has no hope. I don't know, maybe I just look at my faith in a much more analytical way than you and a few other phatmassers. Edited June 13, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1889600' date='Jun 13 2009, 08:58 AM']I apologise. I think I'll just go back the lame board. [/quote] Lame people really should stick to there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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