Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1895641' date='Jun 18 2009, 11:00 PM']It's not as simple as that. These discussions aren't just going to be over in a month or too. You can't reasonably expect a society of 400 priests and provides the sacraments for 1 million people to just stop functioning for (possibly) years.[/quote] I certainly can expect that. They're in error, not the Church. They're the ones that have to make changes for Rome, not the other way around. I have great respect for the SSPX, but at the end of the day, they have to bring themselves to the hierarchy's standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1895653' date='Jun 19 2009, 12:07 AM']I certainly can expect that. They're in error, not the Church. They're the ones that have to make changes for Rome, not the other way around. I have great respect for the SSPX, but at the end of the day, they have to bring themselves to the hierarchy's standards.[/quote] It is not practical. Pope Benedict didn't life the excommunications just to stop the Society from functioning. That would be totally redundant. The German bishops should respect the Holy Fathers intentions on this matter a be a bit more tactful. This is the first time I've heard of them giving a beaver dam about canon law and obedience to the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 So they should ignore canon law just this once? Just in this particular situation the rules are all right to turn a blind eye to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1895662' date='Jun 19 2009, 12:14 AM']So they should ignore canon law just this once? Just in this particular situation the rules are all right to turn a blind eye to?[/quote] Do you honestly believe their sole motive in causing this trouble is out of respect and adherence to canon law and church discipline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1895667' date='Jun 18 2009, 11:16 PM']Do you honestly believe their sole motive in causing this trouble is out of respect and adherence to canon law and church discipline?[/quote] I don't feel morally justified in analyzing the motivations of the German bishops. I'm surprised you're not more on the side of canon law. You're a pretty traditionalist guy. How could you expect the hierarchy in Germany to ignore the Church's laws? Just because the group they're dealing with also happens to be traditionalist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1895672' date='Jun 19 2009, 12:22 AM']I don't feel morally justified in analyzing the motivations of the German bishops. I'm surprised you're not more on the side of canon law. You're a pretty traditionalist guy. How could you expect the hierarchy in Germany to ignore the Church's laws? Just because the group they're dealing with also happens to be traditionalist?[/quote] Because I think causing this kind of drama, over something the groups been doing for decades and no doubt intended to continue after the excommunications were lifted, is contrary to the Holy Fathers desire to bring them back into full communion. Something he's been working at since the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 According to the news article that I received from Zenit.com a couple of days ago that for legal reasons I can't display, SSPX bishop Alfonso de la Galaretta is schedualed on June 27th to ordain three priests and three deacons at their seminary in Germany. According to a representative of the local ordinary, the bishop is still wating for a response on what to do from Rome, but he is sure the penalty will be Excommunication for the ordained and the ordaining bishop. Then the article seems to split. On one hand, bishop Fellay remarks about genuine desire to work with the church, noting the kindness of the people he's worked with. He even halted sub-diaconate ordinations in the United States pending negotiations. On the other hand, he seems to think Rome has no problem with these ordinations and says, "We cannot just now say, 'stop breathing,'" he argues in defense of the society's continued administration of the sacraments. "We need to breathe. And, definitely, if the Pope was so good to take away the excommunications, that mean he doesn’t want us now to die." The society seems to be wiling to go ahead with the ordinations although Bishop Fellay fears that the act might break down negotiations. The article then seems to end with the bishop noting that he wishes for doctrinal issues to be resolved before accepting canonical status within the church, though he seems willing to accept compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 It was wrong when they were doing it then, and it's still wrong now. I don't think it's less wrong to let that state of error go unchecked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Got another article from Zenit. SSPX still plans to ordain. Church still reiterates that they aren't legit and can't do that. Fellay still thinks nothing is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Just wondering, is there anyway to contact either bishop Fellay or bishop de la Galaretta? This is serious. Somebody needs to talk to them, fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Gregorius, the bishops of the SSPX have been ordaining priests illicitly for twenty years. Rome is not going to be able to talk them out of it. Unless Rome wants to end all future possibillity of dialogue with the SSPX, the Vatican is not going to impose an ecclesiastical censure on the bishops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='Gregorius' post='1895728' date='Jun 18 2009, 11:52 PM']Just wondering, is there anyway to contact either bishop Fellay or bishop de la Galaretta? This is serious. Somebody needs to talk to them, fast.[/quote] I'm sure they're in dialogue with the Holy See over it now. No need for someone from an obscure forum to get involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Gregorius' post='1895725' date='Jun 18 2009, 11:50 PM']Got another article from Zenit. SSPX still plans to ordain. Church still reiterates that they aren't legit and can't do that. Fellay still thinks nothing is wrong.[/quote] 1988 all over again Thank goodness, I was starting to think this summer was going to be a bore. Edited June 19, 2009 by goldenchild17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1895841' date='Jun 19 2009, 11:29 AM']1988 all over again Thank goodness, I was starting to think this summer was going to be a bore. [/quote] Indeed. Although it would be much more entertaining if it weren't so bloody serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1895846' date='Jun 19 2009, 04:06 AM'] Indeed. Although it would be much more entertaining if it weren't so bloody serious.[/quote] true. Though it will all work out in the end, whether that be sooner or later. So I don't mind the drama in the meantime. Life's too short to be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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