Why Some Conservative Catholics Want To Stop

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='20 August 2009 - 01:07 PM' timestamp='1250791641' post='1953258']
I agree.

The whole idea of rushing canonizations appears to be a symptom of the modern consumerist mentality that wants everything quickly.
[/quote]

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='20 August 2009 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1250793048' post='1953277']
The fact that God gave man free will means that lots of things happen in the world that He does not want.
[/quote]

Except canonizations, decisions of ecumenical Church councils, etc...

[Hassan]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='19 August 2009 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1250732966' post='1952995']
I think the bigger problem is that even if you do consume the host and have no intention of desecrating the host, particles adhere to the fingers and fall to the ground and are stepped on... even though the people recieving may have had no thought of desecrating the Blessed Sacrament. The priest has are specially consecrated to hold the Eucharist, and even he purifies his fingers carefully after holy communion, to do the best possible to safeguard the particles, because Jesus is as fully present there as in a whole host.
[/quote]

When a Passionist Priest I was friends with was the head of one of the order's monastery he had a Priest who literally went insane over this. He became so obsessive over preventing any particle's of the host from being in any danger of potential inadvertent desecration that he broke with reality. He had to be hospitalized I believe after he refused to get off his bed or touch anything because he saw potential or actual host particles everywhere he looked.

I understand not wanted to have overt desecration of a religious symbol, but not the sort of neurosis I sometimes see about Host particles.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='20 August 2009 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1250801950' post='1953354']
Except canonizations, decisions of ecumenical Church councils, etc...
[/quote]
The reduction of the Church's activities to that of an automaton is not biblical, nor is it patristic. There is no reason to rush the Latin Church's canonization of John Paul II.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='20 August 2009 - 03:09 PM' timestamp='1250802581' post='1953356']
When a Passionist Priest I was friends with was the head of one of the order's monastery he had a Priest who literally went insane over this. He became so obsessive over preventing any particle's of the host from being in any danger of potential inadvertent desecration that he broke with reality. He had to be hospitalized I believe after he refused to get off his bed or touch anything because he saw potential or actual host particles everywhere he looked.

I understand not wanted to have overt desecration of a religious symbol, but not the sort of neurosis I sometimes see about Host particles.
[/quote]
The fact that you know of an individual priest who suffered from a form of mental illness is hardly relevant to the issue of the profanation of the holy mysteries. Unless you are trying to say that everyone who is opposed to the laity directly handling the Eucharistic elements is mentally ill.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Hassan' date='20 August 2009 - 04:09 PM' timestamp='1250802581' post='1953356']
When a Passionist Priest I was friends with was the head of one of the order's monastery he had a Priest who literally went insane over this. He became so obsessive over preventing any particle's of the host from being in any danger of potential inadvertent desecration that he broke with reality. He had to be hospitalized I believe after he refused to get off his bed or touch anything because he saw potential or actual host particles everywhere he looked.

I understand not wanted to have overt desecration of a religious symbol, but not the sort of neurosis I sometimes see about Host particles.
[/quote]

There is a reason why in the EF the priest keeps his thumb and index finger (the "canonical digits") joined until the ablutions (during which they are washed with wine and water which is he then consumes). I do believe that all reasonable care should be taken to make sure that no particle which detaches itself from a Host is lost (e.g. distribution of Communion on the tongue, use of Communion patens, careful performing of the ablutions, and the aforementioned joining canonical digits). These things are mandatory for the EF (and have been for centuries), and it would be good for them to be practiced in the OF as well.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='20 August 2009 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1250803537' post='1953361']
There is a reason why in the EF the priest keeps his thumb and index finger (the "canonical digits") joined until the ablutions (during which they are washed with wine and water which is he then consumes). I do believe that all reasonable care should be taken to make sure that no particle which detaches itself from a Host is lost (e.g. distribution of Communion on the tongue, use of Communion patens, careful performing of the ablutions, and the aforementioned joining canonical digits). These things are mandatory for the EF (and have been for centuries), and it would be good for them to be practiced in the OF as well.
[/quote]


(This post is going to be completely off topic)
I love the EF! I saw the Carmelite Rite this summer... Whoever said the Roman Rite was the most beautiful thing this side of heaven had never been to a Carmelite Mass...

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='20 August 2009 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1250804703' post='1953371']
(This post is going to be completely off topic)
I love the EF! I saw the Carmelite Rite this summer... Whoever said the Roman Rite was the most beautiful thing this side of heaven had never been to a Carmelite Mass...
[/quote]
Dude. Haven't seen you around these parts in a while. I would like to witness some of the other Roman Rites at some point...

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='20 August 2009 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1250804703' post='1953371']
(This post is going to be completely off topic)
I love the EF! I saw the Carmelite Rite this summer... Whoever said the Roman Rite was the most beautiful thing this side of heaven had never been to a Carmelite Mass...
[/quote]

Aalpha I haven't talked to you in forever!

I've never been to Mass in the Carmelite Rite, but I would certainly like to do so someday.

It was actually the Liturgy used in Jersualem during the Crusades, which is pretty awesome.

[Brigid]

[quote name='Hassan' date='20 August 2009 - 05:09 PM' timestamp='1250802581' post='1953356']
When a Passionist Priest I was friends with was the head of one of the order's monastery he had a Priest who literally went insane over this. He became so obsessive over preventing any particle's of the host from being in any danger of potential inadvertent desecration that he broke with reality. He had to be hospitalized I believe after he refused to get off his bed or touch anything because he saw potential or actual host particles everywhere he looked.

I understand not wanted to have overt desecration of a religious symbol, but not the sort of neurosis I sometimes see about Host particles.
[/quote]
It's possible to be cautious without being neurotic. It's not very difficult, nor does it take much effort, for a person to check his hands for particles of Our Lord after receiving Him. I guess I see it as a way to show Him we care... He humbled Himself for us; it's the least we can do to make sure He is taken good care of.

Slightly more on topic (and referring to someone else's post)... I call him Papa John Paul. well, I call all the popes "Papa". I've always seen "JP2" as affectionate, rather than disrespectful. I like that so many buildings are being named after him, and I like that so many people love him. I know of many people who have been drawn deeper into their faith or have been deeply influenced because of his life.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Brigid

[Selah]

[quote]The fact that you know of an individual priest who suffered from a form of mental illness is hardly relevant to the issue of the profanation of the holy mysteries. Unless you are trying to say that everyone who is opposed to the laity directly handling the Eucharistic elements is mentally ill. [/quote]

That's not what he's saying. It's one thing to protect the Host but quite another to behave in the way this poor priest did. Jesus never meant for us to live with such irrational fear, and that is what he was doing it seems.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Selah

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Selah' date='20 August 2009 - 04:22 PM' timestamp='1250806923' post='1953396']
That's not what he's saying. It's one thing to protect the Host but quite another to behave in the way this poor priest did. Jesus never meant for us to live with such irrational fear, and that is what he was doing it seems.
[/quote]
What I take offense at, in both your post and his, is the assumption that restricting the direct handling of the Eucharistic elements to the clergy is based upon an irrational fear that the holy mysteries might be profaned. In other words, the example of a priest who is suffering from a neurosis is irrelevant to the present discussion.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

I have a friend who suffers from a form of OCD that compels him to wash his hands constantly, but that does not mean that I will stop washing my hands simply because he is afflicted with a psychological disorder.

[Selah]

I have no idea how or why you took offense. All I did was reinterate what Hassan said. But okay.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Selah' date='20 August 2009 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1250808290' post='1953417']
I have no idea how or why you took offense. All I did was reinterate what Hassan said. But okay.
[/quote]
Because -- as I pointed out -- the example given by Hassan is irrelevant. Unless one was to argue that everyone who is for restricting the direct handling of the sacred elements to the clergy is suffering from a neurosis.