St Pius X Relic On Ebay

[dUSt]

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-ST-PIUS-RELIC-FILIGREE-RELIQUARY-w-WAX-SEAL-NR_W0QQitemZ190335045720QQcategoryZ13770QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63

So... I know that relics should not be sold, but the fact is, they are. Is it against church teaching to buy them? Does anyone know the story behind the wax seal found on certain relics? Let's talk about relics on eBay!

[Resurrexi]

Can. 1190 §1. It is absolutely forbidden to sell sacred relics.

[dUSt]

Can the argument be made that what is being sold is the medal, and not the relic?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='dUSt' date='20 September 2009 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1253465512' post='1969658']
Can the argument be made that what is being sold is the medal, and not the relic?
[/quote]

That would seem to me to be contrary to the spirit of the law, but I can't say with any certainty.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='20 September 2009 - 12:46 PM' timestamp='1253465190' post='1969656']
Can. 1190 §1. It is absolutely forbidden to sell sacred relics.
[/quote]

but not to buy?

[zunshynn]

I would think if it appears that the relic is in danger of being treated sacrilegiously, it would be appropriate to buy, but I don't know.

I bought an antique icon once at a flea market, not realizing that that was wrong... When I realized it was, I confessed that and my confessor told me that I should have it blessed again because the blessing does not transfer. But that's not a relic... it could be a different scenario.

I actually asked about this once in the Q&A forum, I'll see if I can find the topic. I was kind of confused by the answer, but I think it did say that it is the seller's moral obligation.

Edited September 20, 2009 by zunshynn

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='20 September 2009 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1253466276' post='1969673']
I bought an antique icon once at a flea market, not realizing that that was wrong... When I realized it was, I confessed that and my confessor told me that I should have it blessed again because the blessing does not transfer. But that's not a relic... it could be a different scenario.
[/quote]

I don't think there is anything wrong with buying an antique icon if you were just buying the picture itself. Obviously it would be wrong to pay more for an icon that had been blessed than one that had not been blessed, since one would be attempting to buy a blessing.

[mommas_boy]

I've heard of people who will buy relics to protect them from subsequent sales between collectors. I think that the logic is that once it is bought by one collector, it is likely to be sold again to another collector. Would this practice be morally acceptable?

[Saint Therese]

I think if it were your intention to buy a sacred relic in order to prevent sacrilage it would be okay. But I'm no expert.

[dUSt]

Well, with the relics I saw for sale today, the seller is not Catholic. He acquired the relics in an estate sale--so the seller, in this case, is just selling items that mean little to him. I don't know, it's a tricky dilemna, because it's not like you are preventing the sale of the relics by not buying them, because it is an auction--and they will be sold to somebody regardless... so.... would you feel better by buying them and knowing that they will be in good hands, or do you not buy them and let them go someplace else? I don't know. Surely, the church has said something about the moral implications of [b]buying[/b] relics, haven't they? We didn't need eBay to come along before finding out a good answer to this.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='20 September 2009 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1253466276' post='1969673']
.... I confessed that and my confessor told me that I should have it blessed again because the blessing does not transfer....
[/quote]
*can guess that Apo is probably biting his tongue over this one*

[quote name='dUSt' date='20 September 2009 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1253478207' post='1969830']
Well, with the relics I saw for sale today, the seller is not Catholic. He acquired the relics in an estate sale--so the seller, in this case, is just selling items that mean little to him. I don't know, it's a tricky dilemna, because it's not like you are preventing the sale of the relics by not buying them, because it is an auction--and they will be sold to somebody regardless... so.... would you feel better by buying them and knowing that they will be in good hands, or do you not buy them and let them go someplace else? I don't know. Surely, the church has said something about the moral implications of [b]buying[/b] relics, haven't they? We didn't need eBay to come along before finding out a good answer to this.
[/quote]
Well, we gotta consider the spirit of Simony. It is the desire to buy holy objects for the sake of automatically obtaining their graces. Open up the bible. Check it out. I would hope that buying the relic to save it from desecration [i]in this age[/i] would be a moral exception because of the state of affairs in this world. If you feel bad about having it, give it away to a priest or a parish. In that way, it can become a gift again, just as it was meant to be before (that is, a gift from God to us through the saint's relic).

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='dUSt' date='20 September 2009 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1253478207' post='1969830']
Well, with the relics I saw for sale today, the seller is not Catholic. He acquired the relics in an estate sale--so the seller, in this case, is just selling items that mean little to him. I don't know, it's a tricky dilemna, because it's not like you are preventing the sale of the relics by not buying them, because it is an auction--and they will be sold to somebody regardless... so.... would you feel better by buying them and knowing that they will be in good hands, or do you not buy them and let them go someplace else? I don't know. Surely, the church has said something about the moral implications of [b]buying[/b] relics, haven't they? We didn't need eBay to come along before finding out a good answer to this.
[/quote]

Found this on FishEaters:

[indent]
The Treatment of relics

Canon Law 1190
§1 It is absolutely wrong to sell sacred relics.
§2 Distinguished relics, and others which are held in great veneration by the people, may not validly be in any way alienated nor transferred on a permanent basis, without the permission of the Apostolic See.

While selling relics ("simony") is wrong, it is permissible to buy them if they will be marketed anyway and buying them would save them from desecration. This must be done only if the good that comes from buying the relic outweighs other uses the money spent could be used for -- and this should never be done at auction because bidding would only drive up the price, forcing others who simply want to rescue relics to pay more. This could also increase the likelihood of a market developing in the sale of relics.

Relics may be legitimately obtained from Church sources, i.e., the Vicariate in Rome, the religious Order of the Saint involved, the shrine of the Saint involved, etc. When this is done, a donation is usually expected to cover the cost of the metal container (theca) that contains the relic, but in any case, a profit cannot legitimately be made from the sale of relics by anyone.
[/indent]

I must note that the paragraph beginning "While selling relics" does not appear to be a continuation of the canon law quoted above it, only the author's opinion. I think I agree with this. Link: [url="http://www.fisheaters.com/relics.html"]http://www.fisheaters.com/relics.html[/url]

I also saw a priest who mentioned on EWTN that buying relics only increases demand for them, thus encouraging their sale more.

Edited September 20, 2009 by mommas_boy

[zunshynn]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=53067&view=findpost&p=992367"]Q&A on buying/selling blessed items[/url]

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='21 September 2009 - 09:52 PM' timestamp='1253584320' post='1970749']
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=53067&view=findpost&p=992367"]Q&A on buying/selling blessed items[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks for posting that.

So it seems you can buy and sell blessed items, however you cannot sell/buy a relic.

[CoffeeCatholic]

Joey found a relic of St. Roch on ebay a while back, and he consulted our priest and his friend Mr. Seraphim (who runs a rescue for relics). They both said that if he could afford it, he should buy it to rescue it from misuse because he has a true devotion to the Saint (St. Roch is his confirmation patron). It's a fine line, but I think the article above makes a good point- the Canon specifically forbids selling relics, in part because of church history when people would sell fake relics to unsuspecting faithful. But it does not forbid the purchase for this very reason.