Most Adult Catholics Are Damned For Eternity, According To Most Saints

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hietanen' date='26 September 2009 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1253990827' post='1973016']
This book is a mirror inwhich the soul can see its stains and learn what is pleasing to God and what displeases him. Read this book again and again and you will learn how you must love God and your neighbor, despise what is earthly and transient, striving after the everlasting and heavenly,enduring for Christ's sake the adversities of this world and despising its prosperity and enticements, thanking God in sickness,not taking pride in good health, not becoming presumptuous in good fortune nor downcast in trials.
[/quote]
I read Sacred Scripture again and again, and I worship Almighty God through the public liturgical rites of the Church, which give substantive value and form to the whole of my spiritual life. I have no real interest in private revelations, and - of course - as a Catholic I am not required to have any interest in such things.

[Hietanen]

[b][url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showuser=1178"]StColette[/url][/b]

Yes you are right. I often misunderstand, because of my bad English. Beg your pardon.


[quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 September 2009 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1253994075' post='1973057']
Iread Sacred Scripture again and again, and I worship Almighty Godthrough the public liturgical rites of the Church, which givesubstantive value and form to the whole of my spiritual life. I haveno real interest in private revelations, and - of course - as aCatholic I am not required to have any interest in such things.
[/quote]


Yes neither do I have real interest in most private Revelations. Butwhat most people do not know, is that these private Revelations are notordinary one's. If you would just take time to read the first 10chapters you would understand that. Anyone reading these words of Godwill gain much from it. People neglecting to read, will have missed outa great deal. Since some people seem to have so much trouble reading oftheir own will, I will post a chapter here, for you all to read.


[b]Book 7 - Chapter 30[/b]
[url="http://www.prophecyfilm.com"]www.prophecyfilm.com[/url]
I saw a grand palace like the serene sky. In it was the host of theheavenly army, innumerable as the atoms of the sun and having a gleamas of the sun's rays. But in the palace, on a wonderful throne theresat, as it were, the person of a human being, a Lord ofincomprehensible beauty and immense power; his clothes were wonderfuland of inexpressible brightness. And before him who sat on the thronethere stood a Virgin who was more radiant than the sun.

All those of the heavenly host, who stood nearby, reverently honoredher as the queen of heaven. But then he who sat on the throne openedhis mouth and said: "Hearken, all you my enemies who live in the world;for to my friends who follow my will, I am not speaking. Hearken, allyou clerics: archbishops and bishops and all of lower rank in theChurch! Hearken, all you religious, of whatever order you are! Hearken,you kings and princes and judges of the earth and all you who serve!

Hearken, you women: princesses and all ladies and maidservants! Allyou inhabitants of the world, of whatever condition or rank you are,whether great or small, hearken to these words that I myself, whocreated you, now speak to you! I complain because you have withdrawnfrom me and have put faith in the devil, my enemy. You have abandonedmy commandments and you follow the will of the devil and you obey hissuggestions.

You do not attend to the fact that I, the unchanging and eternal God,your Creator, came down from heaven to a Virgin and took flesh from herand lived with you. Through my own self, I opened the way for you andshowed the counsels by which you might go to heaven. I was stripped andscourged and crowned with thorns and so forcefully extended on thecross that, as it were, all the sinews and joints of my body were beingundone. I heard all insults and endured a most contemptible death andmost bitter heartache for the sake of your salvation.

To all these things, O my enemies, you are not attentive becauseyou have been deceived. Therefore you bear the yoke and burden of thedevil with false sweetness and neither know nor feel them before theapproach of sorrow over the interminable burden. Nor is this enough foryou; for your pride is so great that if you could ascend above me, youwould gladly do it. And the pleasure of the flesh is so important toyou that you would more gladly forfeit me than give up your inordinatedelight.

Moreover, your greed is as insatiable as a sack with a hole in it; forthere is nothing that can satisfy your greed. Therefore, I swear by myGodhead that if you are to die in the state in which you now are, youshall never see my face; but for your pride you shall sink so deeplyinto hell that all the devils will be above you, afflicting you beyondall consolation. Indeed, for your lust you shall be filled withhorrible diabolic venom; and for your greed you shall be filled withsorrow and anguish; and you shall be partakers of all the evil thatthere is in hell.

O my enemies - abominable and ungrateful and degenerate - I seem toyou, as it were, a worm dead in winter. Therefore, you do whateverthings you will, and you prosper. Therefore, I will arise in summer andthen you shall be silent, and you shall not escape my hand. Butnevertheless, O my enemies, because I have redeemed you with my bloodand because I am in quest of naught but your souls, therefore return tome even now with humility and I will gladly receive you as my children.Shake off from you the devil's heavy yoke and recall my charity and youshall see in your conscience that I am sweet and meek."





[url="http://www.prophecyfilm.com/revelations/book7/b7_chapter30.htm"]http://www.prophecyf...7_chapter30.htm[/url]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hietanen' date='26 September 2009 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1253997374' post='1973094']
Yes neither do I have real interest in most private Revelations. But what most people do not know, is that these private Revelations are not ordinary one's.
[/quote]
I find "these private revelations" spiritually irrelevant to me as a Catholic.

P.S. - Why are some of the words in your posts not spaced correctly?

[AccountDeleted]

I am sure that St Bridget was a wonderful saint for her time, but rather than focus on the "fear of damnation", it inspires me more to focus on the mercy of God's love.

[b][i]His listeners asked him, "Who, then, can be saved?" to which he replied, "Things that are impossible for men are possible for God." [/b][/i]Luke 18:26

If Jesus promised heaven to the penitent thief, then how much more will He look with mercy upon those who are at least trying to please Him, despite all our very human failings? If even St Paul could complain about doing things he didn't want to, and not doing the things that he wanted to, well, let's admit that we are sinners, and trust in God's mercy and love for each one of us, rather than focusing on things like hellfire and damnation. The evil one can use fear to create a sense of despair and hopeless. Wouldn't it be much better to motivate and inspire people to be good, not to avoid damnation, but to be able to enjoy the Beatific Vision of God's glory through Jesus?

I know we all have our favorite saints, but Bridget sounds a little terrifying to me!

[StColette]

[quote name='Hietanen' date='26 September 2009 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1253997374' post='1973094']
But what most people do not know, is that these private Revelations are not ordinary one's.
[/quote]

I believe people would say this about any Church approved private Revelations that they believe in. I don't believe one instance of private Revelation is any better or more important than others. They each carry a message and in the majority of cases that I can think of it is a reminder to return to Christ. Catholics who practice their faith properly (orthopraxy not just orthodoxy) have this reminder to return to Christ each time they attend Mass, receive the Eucharist, go to Confession, pray, read scripture, etc. One does not have to read a message of doom in order to be living a life completely wrapped up in Christ.

[Ziggamafu]

I hope that everyone makes it to Purgatory. I despair of nobody's salvation; not Hitler's nor those who have victimized me or the ones I love. I hope that justice is satisfied in Purgatory and nobody - for God's sake - meets the awful end of eternal damnation. I maintain the long-shot optimism that perhaps the saints and our Lord were referring to the small number of folks who make it straight into Heaven without need of Purgatory. I hope that passages in reference to those in Hell refer only to the demons or perhaps to the notion that Purgatory is the pain of Hell experienced temporarily rather than eternally.

We've all known somebody that has experienced an extraordinary conversion; either after having witnessed a miracle or having a supernatural epiphany. There are stories of hardened atheists who come to believe in an unusual episode of miraculous grace similar to that enjoyed by Saul. We believe in the possibility of perfect contrition and moreover that all conversions are wholly dependent on the motivating factor of God's grace in the first place. We know that God loves everyone and wills that all should accept the gift he offers. It is my hope that the more stubborn or evil the soul, the more extraordinary / miraculous the grace will be offered to motivate conversion or perfect contrition at the point of death.

It would seem an eternal injustice against God for him to be denied a single soul that he wants; it is my hope that justice will triumph in the end and God will, through the power of his grace, get all the souls that he wants. Do I presume this? No. But I am as hopeful of it as I am of my own salvation. Preach as if all might be saved and live as if all might be lost. There's balance in there somewhere. It seems to me that it would take a very callous person to believe that nearly everyone is damned while living a practical life free from despair and misery.

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='nunsense' date='27 September 2009 - 06:18 AM' timestamp='1254046719' post='1973280']
I am sure that St Bridget was a wonderful saint for her time, but rather than focus on the "fear of damnation", it inspires me more to focus on the mercy of God's love.

I know we all have our favorite saints, but Bridget sounds a little terrifying to me!
[/quote]

I agree. I would much rather focus on the Divine Mercy and live the commandments as best I can than worry about the fear of damnation. I honestly feel as though I cannot connect with St. Bridget of Sweden. This is not exclusive, either. There are other saints out there such as St. Gregory or Joan of Arc. I guess I prefer the ones who focus on Christ's love and mercy like St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Teresa of the Andes, and St. John of the Cross. I have, however, benefited greatly from reading St. Don Bosco's revelation of hell.

[Formosus]

As far as I remember from my reading of St. John of the Cross, he recommends that people do not believe in Private revelation or apparitions, even if they are approved by the Church. I have read some of St. Bridget before merely because I had a curiosity as to what saints were produced by the Scandinavian countries and her prophecies seemed interesting, but really nothing of spiritual value I couldn't have gotten from the Liturgy, Scripture, or the Church Fathers. Just my two cents.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hietanen' date='25 September 2009 - 02:16 PM' timestamp='1253902595' post='1972647']
Matthew 7:13- “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate,and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there arewho go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way thatleadeth to life, and few there are that find it!”

Luke 13:24- “Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.”


Scripture also teaches that almost the entire world lies indarkness, so much so that Satan is even called the “prince” (John12:31) and “god” (2 Cor. 4:3) of this world.

1 John 5:19- “We know that we are of God, and the whole world is seated in wickedness.”

It’s the sad fact of history that most people in the world are ofbad will and don’t want the truth. That’s why almost the whole worldlies in darkness and on the road to perdition. This has been the casesince the beginning. It was the case when only eight souls (Noe and hisfamily) escaped God’s wrath in the deluge that covered the entireearth, and when the Israelites rejected God’s law and fell intoidolatry over and over again.


The truth is that for those who truly believe in God, accept Hisfull truth (the Catholic Faith), don’t compromise it and want to do theright thing, it’s not hard to reach Heaven. As Christ said, “My yoke issweet and My burden light” (Mt. 11:30). The reason that so few make itis not because it’s that hard, but because they refuse to believe thesimple and easy things He has revealed, and do the simple and easythings He has commanded. Those who do what God wants and believe whatHe says realize that they are much happier than they were before.

But the sad truth is that almost all people are of bad will. Thisis why the saints and Doctors of the Church have consistently taughtonly a very small percentage of people are saved. In fact, the saintsand Doctors of the Church, even during the ages of faith, taught thatmost adult Catholics are lost.


Saint Leonard of Port Maurice [A.D. 1676-1751], on the fewness ofthe saved: “After consulting all the theologians and making a diligentstudy of the matter, he [Suarez] wrote, ‘The most common sentimentwhich is held is that, among Christians [Catholics], there are moredamned souls than predestined souls.’ Add the authority of the Greekand Latin Fathers to that of the theologians, and you will find thatalmost all of them say the same thing. This is the sentiment of SaintTheodore, Saint Basil, Saint Ephrem, Saint John Chrysostom. What ismore, according to Baronius it was a common opinion among the GreekFathers that this truth was expressly revealed to Saint Simeon Stylitesand that after this revelation, it was to secure his salvation that hedecided to live standing on top of a pillar for forty years, exposed tothe weather, a model of penance and holiness for everyone. Now let usconsult the Latin Fathers. You will hear Saint Gregory saying clearly,"Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom." Saint Anselmdeclares, "There are few who are saved." Saint Augustine states evenmore clearly, "Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who aredamned." The most terrifying, however, is Saint Jerome. At the end ofhis life, in the presence of his disciples, he spoke these dreadfulwords: "Out of one hundred thousand people whose lives have always beenbad, you will find barely one who is worthy of indulgence."

When Saint Leonard of Port Maurice uses the term “Christian,” hemeans Catholics, not heretics. Saint Leonard is repeating theconsistent teaching of the Fathers and Doctors: most adult Catholics(not even including the non-Catholic world) are lost. If this was thesentiment about the salvation of Catholics in the ages of faith, whatwould they say today? If you have trouble accepting the truthspresented by Christ through Saint Bridget and innumerable other saintsbecause “it’s just too hard to believe that this many people could bewrong or deceived and lost,” consider the teaching of Our Lord and thesaints above. Consider how much more true the teaching on the fewnessof the saved is today:


“Lucia found Jacinta sitting alone, still and very pensive, gazingat nothing. ‘What are you thinking of, Jacinta?’ ‘Of the war that isgoing to come. So many people are going to die. And almost all of themare going to Hell.’” (Our Lady of Fatima, p. 94; p. 92 in someversions)

Jacinta of Fatima, who had visions of future events, said that ofthose who would die in World War II almost all of them would go toHell.


Saint Anselm: “If thou wouldst be certain of being in the number ofthe elect, strive to be one of the few, not of the many. And if thouwouldst be quite sure of thy salvation, strive to be among the fewestof the few… Do not follow the great majority of mankind, but followthose who enter upon the narrow way, who renounce the world, who givethemselves to prayer, and who never relax their efforts by day or bynight, that they may attain everlasting blessedness.” (Fr. Martin VonCochem, The Four Last Things, p. 221.)
[/quote]
Quit while you're ahead. Not that you're ahead right now. It's an idiom. It means you're not ahead and should just shut up.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hietanen' date='25 September 2009 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1253911943' post='1972701']
My intention is to make sinners amend their lives. [/quote]
These guys are removing planks. Get it?
[img]http://www.cambayrac.hemscott.net/archivephotos/plank%20removal.jpg[/img]

[Hietanen]

[quote name='nunsense' date='27 September 2009 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1254046719' post='1973280']
I am sure that St Bridget was a wonderful saint for her time, but rather than focus on the "fear of damnation", it inspires me more to focus on the mercy of God's love.

[b][i]His listeners asked him, "Who, then, can be saved?" to which he replied, "Things that are impossible for men are possible for God." [/i][/b]Luke 18:26

If Jesus promised heaven to the penitent thief, then how much more will He look with mercy upon those who are at least trying to please Him, despite all our very human failings? If even St Paul could complain about doing things he didn't want to, and not doing the things that he wanted to, well, let's admit that we are sinners, and trust in God's mercy and love for each one of us, rather than focusing on things like hellfire and damnation. The evil one can use fear to create a sense of despair and hopeless. Wouldn't it be much better to motivate and inspire people to be good, not to avoid damnation, but to be able to enjoy the Beatific Vision of God's glory through Jesus?

I know we all have our favorite saints, but Bridget sounds a little terrifying to me!
[/quote]


[quote name='InHisLove726' date='28 September 2009 - 03:13 PM' timestamp='1254139981' post='1973647']
I agree. I would much rather focus on the Divine Mercy and live the commandments as best I can than worry about the fear of damnation. I honestly feel as though I cannot connect with St. Bridget of Sweden. This is not exclusive, either. There are other saints out there such as St. Gregory or Joan of Arc. I guess I prefer the ones who focus on Christ's love and mercy like St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Teresa of the Andes, and St. John of the Cross. I have, however, benefited greatly from reading St. Don Bosco's revelation of hell.
[/quote]


My dear friends. God is both harsh and lovingly in his Revelations. That for a reason. These Revelations and St. Bridget influence because of them, appeared before Popes, Cardinals, Doctors and theologians, Priests and Abbots, Kings and Queens, high and low - God used this Saint (and others) to end the great schism and abominable vices in the Church by the people at its time. The open sins by priests and religious and ordinary people are constantly condemned throughout the Revelations, the spiritual neglect and how to overcome it is almost always found in these words, the buying and selling of indulgences how hateful this is before God can be read again and again, the Avignon papacy and how he compel the papacy to moved back to Rome, and threatens with harsh consequences if this be not done according to his will.

If you want words that make you fly, you will find those in abundance as well. Take the one below as an example.


Book 4 - Chapter 101
[url="http://www.prophecyfilm.com/"]www.prophecyfilm.com[/url]

TheMother of God speaks: "My Son's heart is as sweet as the sweetest honeyand as clean as the purest spring, for whatever belongs to virtue andgoodness flows from it as from a spring. His heart is also mostpleasant. What is more pleasant to a sensible person than thecontemplation of God's love in his creation and redemption, in his lifeof work and his teaching, in his grace and long-suffering? His love isindeed not fluid like water, but widespread and durable, for it stayswith a person until the very end, so much so that if a sinner werestanding at the very gates of perdition, even then he would be rescuedif he cried out with a purpose of amendment.

There are two waysto reach the heart of God. The first is the humility of truecontrition. This leads a person to God's heart and to a spiritualdialogue. The second way is the contemplation of my Son's passion. Thisremoves the hardness of the human heart and makes a person run towardGod's heart with joy."

[url="http://www.prophecyfilm.com/revelations/book4/b4_chapter101.htm"]www.prophecyfilm.com/revelations/book4/b4_chapter101.htm[/url]




[b]About the Revelations by God through St. Bridget to the Avignon Pope(s), can be read in book 4, starting from chapter 136[/b]

[i]The pious handmaid of Christ, Lady Birgitta ofblessed memory, received the following revelations in a divinelyinspired vision while she was at prayer. They are addressed to theRoman pontiffs Clement VI, Innocent VI, Urban V, and Gregory XI. Theydeal with the return of the Apostolic See and the Roman Curia to Romeand the reformation of the church by command of almighty God. Two yearsbefore the Jubilee Year, Christ gives the bride the words containedhere and orders her to send them to Pope Clement in order that heshould establish peace between the kings of France and England and cometo Italy and proclaim the Jubilee Year. The Reverend Lord Hemming,bishop of Åbo, and Brother Peter, prior of the Cistercian monastery ofAlvastra in the kingdom of Sweden.[/i]

Book 4 - Chapter 136


[url="http://www.prophecyfilm.com/revelations/book4/b4_chapter136.htm"]http://www.prophecyf..._chapter136.htm[/url]

[Didacus]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='27 September 2009 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1254074248' post='1973363']
I hope that everyone makes it to Purgatory. I despair of nobody's salvation; not Hitler's nor those who have victimized me or the ones I love. I hope that justice is satisfied in Purgatory and nobody - for God's sake - meets the awful end of eternal damnation. I maintain the long-shot optimism that perhaps the saints and our Lord were referring to the small number of folks who make it straight into Heaven without need of Purgatory. I hope that passages in reference to those in Hell refer only to the demons or perhaps to the notion that Purgatory is the pain of Hell experienced temporarily rather than eternally.

[snip]
[/quote]

I hope you're correct. I just know I'm not in the top 50% of Catholics; the thougth of most Catholics being dammed is very frigthening. Then I find myself trying to be more fervant out of fear rather than love, and I know that is not what God wants.

[Apotheoun]

Hietanen,

Quoting private revelations that no one has to accept as valid or true is not the best way to present a theological position.

May God grant you many joyful years,
Todd

[Winchester]

Plankity plank plank

Plank plank

[StColette]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='28 September 2009 - 02:25 PM' timestamp='1254162344' post='1973805']
Hietanen,

Quoting private revelations that no one has to accept as valid or true is not the best way to present a theological position.

May God grant you many joyful years,
Todd
[/quote]

Todd, are you familiar with these revelations to St. Bridget? I know he keeps saying they have been approved by the Church, but I can't find any documentation saying that they are, other than on the site he keeps linking to. I did find approval for the prayers for the Holy See, but not the revelations.