Cloisterite Foundation Update

[Gemma]

[url="http://cloisters.bravejournal.com/"]http://cloisters.bravejournal.com/[/url]

Blessings,
Gemma

[DiscerningSoul]

You will be in my prayers.

Keep up the good work.

Blessings always,
Jessica

[EWIE]

[b]Dear Gemma, Please know that this question is asked with sincerity and a desire to understand.
I don't understand who you are or how you are founding all these new Orders and with so many varied charisms, not to mention the green and yellow and all variety of habits?
With the ancient and traditional communities at a low in membership, is it right to be draining the resovoir, so to speak?
Do people who sign up with you know of the instability of the foundations.
My apology in advance if I have offended anyone, especially Gemma.[/b]

[Roseoftherese]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1538974' date='May 23 2008, 02:00 PM'][url="http://cloisters.bravejournal.com/"]http://cloisters.bravejournal.com/[/url]

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]

That's awesome, Gemma.

[EWIE]

[quote name='nunsense' date='May 23 2008, 07:49 PM' post='1539357']
Whatever the final outcome of Gemma's foundations, the Lord still receives glory and honor and praise through her efforts. For this reason alone, she deserves our love and support and prayers.

With this, I certainly agree, however not everyone who comes here for help with discernment, has the maturity, experience or background that you have.
Just read some of the ages in the profiles. They obviously can be influenced by a green and yellow habit more so than the truth and the spirit of the words "I must decrease, He must increase."
As I pointed out. I am not pointing a finger at Gemma, I would like to understand where she is coming from. I know Gemma has a family and there [u]are[/u][b][/b] only 24 hours in a day.
I pray SHE responds to my question.
I don't need any more defensive answers on her behalf. I would like to undersand HER, better.

[Gemma]

[quote name='EWIE' post='1539195' date='May 23 2008, 07:08 PM'][b]Dear Gemma, Please know that this question is asked with sincerity and a desire to understand.
I don't understand who you are or how you are founding all these new Orders and with so many varied charisms, not to mention the green and yellow and all variety of habits?
With the ancient and traditional communities at a low in membership, is it right to be draining the resovoir, so to speak?
Do people who sign up with you know of the instability of the foundations.
My apology in advance if I have offended anyone, especially Gemma.[/b][/quote]

In the 20 or so years that I've been working with vocations, I know from experience that God calls vocations to those communities who are living their rule. In the monastic life, the vocation is called to not just one charism, but to a particular monastery within that charism.

The Cloisterite charism has been with me for many years. The foundation cannot and will not interfere with my family life. Both boys are in public school, and hubby is a graduate student. I have a lot of time on my hands, and I spend it with God.

The variety of charisms are to meet the needs of today's world. The habit colors are in response to people complaining about black. The colors are significant in the church's color scheme.

I just last week had a pic of a peach habit on the "religious habit" yahoo group I have.
[url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thereligioushabit/"]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thereligioushabit/[/url] It belonged to the Little Souls Sisters in the Philippines.

I also downloaded to "founders and friends" (another yahoo group I own) some green and orange habit pix, respectively.

Yellow and white are papal colors, and are considered Heaven's own colors.

Green is the color of hope and is included in the church's color scheme. There are a couple of other orders I know of who wear green.

The Pink Sisters wear pink. The Religious of the Assumption wear purple, as do the new community, the Children of Mary.

Someone in Rome saw a sister in an all yellow habit.

Hope this answers your questions. I am on vacation until sometime Monday. I will be able to read emails at my foundress2003@yahoo.com address, but will not be able to respond.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1539357' date='May 23 2008, 09:49 PM']I have to admit that when I first came on phatmass and heard about Gemma's foundations, I was surprised at what she was doing, and perhaps even a little critical. But only God knows what He is asking of her and why, and only she knows if she is truly responding to His call for her. So I think that the best thing any of us can do for each other is to be loving and supportive.

I recently met with a priest who is a figure of some authority. He was very negative, not only about my own vocation, but also about the the idea of new communities in general, telling me that they usually didn't last very long. At the time I felt very depressed, and wrote to Rosalind Moss about it. This was her response...
[i]
"Concerning the longevity of new religious communities, my understanding is that the average community lasts fifty years. That results in thousands of new communities that are no longer in existence. Our Lord is able to keep those He wishes. And I would guess that all others—the majority—though no longer in existence, did a wonderful work within their culture and time. Mother Teresa loved to say that our Lord is not concerned with numbers (perhaps we could safely add, longevity), but with our faithfulness. The rest is up to God." [/i]

And as for "draining the reservoir" of applicants - I don't think this really applies. The Lord calls who He wills, to whichever community He wills. Witness my own call to Rosalind Moss' community, when I was convinced that I had a vocation to be more of a hermit! The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Whatever the final outcome of Gemma's foundations, the Lord still receives glory and honor and praise through her efforts. For this reason alone, she deserves our love and support and prayers.

"Gemma, you go girl!" [/quote]

Thanks for the defense. Know that you and your future sisters--and foundress, of course--are in my prayers.

Blessings,
Gemma

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I agree with Annie, but I understand Ewie's concern. It would be easy for some of the younger members of Phatmass (myself included) to hear all this talk of founders and foundations and start dreaming of creating a new community, as if it is like assembling a doll's house and kitting the dolls out in special clothes. Making a foundation - even one foundation - is not a part of most people's calling, and yet sometimes on Phatmass it is made to seem very common. That could be dangerous to those of us who are not so far along on our way.

I have had to struggle, really struggle, to accept my call to Carmel - even though I rejoice over it at the same time. The reason why I struggle is because of the other gifts that God has given me. It is enough to turn your head, as the saying goes - especially when your priest is telling you that you have too many talents to be a cloistered nun and you are needed in the world. Yes, I have so much in the world that I am very good at and that I love. The fantasy of founding a religious community to do work that interests me, that I consider necessary, that would allow me to do a host of other fascinating things - that has played around in my brain a few times. I have had to resolutely push it away. Luckily I had the guidance and support of a very gentle and wise spiritual director in doing this.

But I know how easy it is to get intoxicated by the desire to be a founder or a foundress, and I also know how few are called to it. It's easy to be deceived, and sometimes I fear that there are younger people on PM who may get caught up in the fantasy - which, because it's holy and about God, can't possibly be wrong. Or can it?

[EWIE]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1539983' date='May 24 2008, 10:40 AM']I just wonder what would have happened if the Apostles had stopped to consider every possible obstacle and disadvantage to spreading the gospel - they might never have left home! [/quote]

No one can 'shorten Gods arm", not even the apostles.

I think you have either missed the point of the "topic" are on a differant page than the original post, or you simply had something of your own to say. Not very much of your "reply related to the question".

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1539983' date='May 24 2008, 05:40 PM']Well, I will probably get shot down for saying this, but I don't think we suffer from an excess of intoxication for God in this day and age. In fact, I think we could do with a lot more people who are "geniuses for God".

Becoming a foundress, as I am sure Gemma can attest, is not something that will happen overnight. So even if some young person (or older person for that matter), gets "carried away" by the "fantasy" of doing something big for God, the harsh reality is that there are enough authorities and discouragements along the way to deter all but the very faint hearted from persevering to the very end in their venture. But does that make their efforts any less meaningful or bring any less glory to God? Personally, I don't think so.[/quote]

I didn't say that it was a bad idea to get 'intoxicated for God'. I wrote that it was a bad idea to get intoxicated by a fantasy. I also believe that we are all called to do something 'big' for God, and that founding a new community is no bigger (or smaller) than living out your days as a humdrum housewife in a humdrum suburb where hardly anybody knows who you are. It is just that most of us have a tendency to assume that the more romantic and exotic an idea, the more genuine and pleasing to God it must be. It's a natural mistake to make, and a ditch that everybody ought to fall into at least once. There's good experience in it. But if you stay there for too long it gets easy to neglect your very real calling for the sake of the exotic calling that you wish you had.

While it is true that the discouragements and trials of making a foundation might put off those who don't really have that vocation, it is also true that they might just inculcate greater stubbornness in people who are mulish enough to begin with, distracting them from the truth of their vocations. I know a lady who fits this last category. She's lovely and funny and kind - but she's also convinced that she is called to found a religious community, and that anybody who objects to the idea is 'persecuting' her. She gets quite aggressive over the issue. She has had a habit made for herself and goes out in the streets in it, introducing herself as a member of a community that doesn't actually exist. The bishop has very gently requested her to stop doing this, and our local priest (who is kindness itself) has also tried his best to temper her excitement a little. I like and respect her a great deal, but I am perturbed by her obsession with making foundation. Of course, it's possible that she is a genuine 'fool for God' and what I call fantasies are really divine inspirations that are beyond my comprehension. I try to remain open to that possibility. But I refuse to 'take the community into my thinking', as she keeps urging me to do, because I won't allow emotional responses to an interesting idea to be my compass-needle. Being an impulsive person by nature, I have to be very careful not to let impulses and emotions govern me - which is why I am quite suspicious of them in other people.

[EWIE]

[quote name='Gemma' date='May 23 2008, 10:29 PM' post='1539536']
Hope this answers your questions.

Dear Gemma, Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and sending the addy of your 'journal". I understand so much better. I would not hesitate now to send either applicants or benefactors your way.
Thank you for hearing the invitation of the Holy Spirit, responding to His Call with such enthusiasm, and continually attempting to maintain your work within the parameters of the Magesterium.
Not a pleasant walk in the park, no matter how you look at it.
Begging your prayers,
Offering mine,
Ewie.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

P.S. This doesn't mean that I am opposed to all new foundations. As I wrote in my first post, I know that some people are called to make them. I just believe that such people are rare.

[littlesister]

All this brings to mind the "Gamaliel Principle" that was drilled into us in school - quite a ways back the road now, by the way : "If it is of God, it will last. If it is not...it won't." Blest are those who have the courage to believe that it is and risk finding out.

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='littlesister' post='1540722' date='May 24 2008, 07:19 PM']All this brings to mind the "Gamaliel Principle" that was drilled into us in school - quite a ways back the road now, by the way : "If it is of God, it will last. If it is not...it won't." Blest are those who have the courage to believe that it is and risk finding out.[/quote]


Amen.

[Saint Therese]

[img]http://photos-381.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v253/198/77/1018492381/a1018492381_30074607_3197.jpg[/img]
I think this is the peach habit that Gemma was speaking of...

Edited May 25, 2008 by Saint Therese

[EWIE]

[quote name='nunsense' date='May 25 2008, 12:24 AM' post='1541307']
Thank you for your correction. I am obviously "on a different page". My apologies.

Nonsense, No apology necessary Nunsense!!! lol

HAPPY FEAST DAY

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='littlesister' post='1540722' date='May 24 2008, 08:19 PM']All this brings to mind the "Gamaliel Principle" that was drilled into us in school - quite a ways back the road now, by the way : "If it is of God, it will last. If it is not...it won't." Blest are those who have the courage to believe that it is and risk finding out.[/quote]

I want to respond to this topic with just a little different "flavor".....inspiration from two sources, one contemporary (an excerpt from a contemporary Christian song) and one ancient (an excerpt from the Easter Homily of St. John Chrysostom). As I've pondered these words I have been inspired to deeper thought, prayer, contemplation and action....considering the "concepts" presented in these words thoughtfully and prayerfully, placing them in proper "order" in my life has meant a great deal to me personally.

I apologize to the composer (thought I doubt the composer will see this) but I can not even remember the correct Title of this song...here's the excerpt though.

[b]Love to talk about the shepherd boy who stood alone against Goliath
Don't say much about the mighty king who killed a man and took his wife
In his failures and his victories, God heard David sing

You are my shepherd, You are my King
Who I am and what I do is meaning less and less, I glorify You
You are my shepherd, my everything
I will leave myself behind, spend the rest of my whole life chasing after You.[/b]

Chrysostom Easter Homily (I'm sharing the whole first paragraph because I think it is beautiful but the last two sentences are the ones that I think are applicable to the question of "success/failure/trying/chasing after/doing God's will. So much in so few words - no wonder others named him GOLDEN MOUTHED.

[b]Whoever you are, come celebrate this shining happening, this festival of light. You, the devout, God's unshakable lover and you the servant brimming with thanks, come walk into the joy of your Lord. And you the impoverished faster, come for your wages, you who began before sunrise, come for your stipend, you who waited until nine in the morning, the feast is for you. And you the not-till-noon-day starter, do not hesitate, you'll not lose a thing. You who began only at 3 in the afternoon, have no scruples, come to the feast, you who arrived just before sunset, forget you were late, don't be bashful, our master is magnanimous and welcomes the very latest with the very first one. He will not entertain you less, you of the eleventh hour than you the dawn toiler, no not at all.To this one He gives and on that one He showers rewards, whether you were a success or whether you only tried. He will greet you, make much of your effort and extol your intention.[/b]


[indent][/indent]By the way, I want to say that I really liked what Nunsense posted - part of Ms. Moss' response to her questions about new communities - 50 years of existence and service to God and his people can hardly be considered a "failure" or "not lasting" - at least not in my opinion. At the same time, I believe it is right and necessary to question, probe, consider and "try" ourselves (if we are doing the "founding") and those who are bringing the "new" to the Church - what is being proposed is of great importance and the souls who may "join" are precious to God - we ought to be responsible and inspired and let Jesus be successful.

At any rate, I hope that someone may find comfort, peace, inspiration, courage, hope and mercy in the sources quoted.

Peace

[jkaands]

Perhaps it would be instructive to review carefully the history of foundresses as they founded their orders. There is a lot of material on this subject. Most of the communities were founded in the 19th century and earlier. The foundresses often had strong support from local church officials and other saints, St. Francis de Sales for Jande de Chantal and the Visitation, St. Vincent de Paul for Louise de Marillac and the Daughters of Charity. The foundresses and their nuns often begged door to door and endured severe privations. Often there would be mutinies within the congregations by unsuitable members who would isolate or kick out the foundress. But people went forward because of their determination and toughness and I think many of the sisters persevered because for many there was no possibility of return to secular life.

It's different now, especially for the 'older vocation' or for anyone who has established themselves in secular life. They have to give up their jobs which may have health insurance and retirement benefits, apartments or houses, maybe selling the latter in the current down market or at a loss, , cars, friends and many other things to enter. If the order fails, and in many ways it can fail, the person is stranded and has to start all over again discerning and supporting herself while she discerns.

To say that that whether the order survives or fails is "the will of God" is, I think, being very simplistic. It is extremely difficult to discern God's will, as many on this forum have discovered, and just because someone thinks that they are following God's will in founding a community doesn't mean that they are actually doing so.

In addition I think that the putative founder or foundress is taking on a huge responsibility for those who follow her into the fledgling community. There must be a huge amount of support at all levels including financial. The Daughters of Mary Mother of the Eucharist in Ann Arbor were heavily underwritten by Tom Monaghan, the founder and CEO of Domino's pizza. There must be great spiritual support and sources for the training, which for the DMME came from their mother order, the Nashville Dominicans. Cardinal Cushing of New York founded the Sisters for Life and I am sure had many resources at his disposal.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1543456' date='May 26 2008, 01:12 PM']Perhaps it would be instructive to review carefully the history of foundresses as they founded their orders. There is a lot of material on this subject. Most of the communities were founded in the 19th century and earlier. The foundresses often had strong support from local church officials and other saints, St. Francis de Sales for Jande de Chantal and the Visitation, St. Vincent de Paul for Louise de Marillac and the Daughters of Charity. The foundresses and their nuns often begged door to door and endured severe privations. Often there would be mutinies within the congregations by unsuitable members who would isolate or kick out the foundress. But people went forward because of their determination and toughness and I think many of the sisters persevered because for many there was no possibility of return to secular life.

It's different now, especially for the 'older vocation' or for anyone who has established themselves in secular life. They have to give up their jobs which may have health insurance and retirement benefits, apartments or houses, maybe selling the latter in the current down market or at a loss, , cars, friends and many other things to enter. If the order fails, and in many ways it can fail, the person is stranded and has to start all over again discerning and supporting herself while she discerns.

To say that that whether the order survives or fails is "the will of God" is, I think, being very simplistic. It is extremely difficult to discern God's will, as many on this forum have discovered, and just because someone thinks that they are following God's will in founding a community doesn't mean that they are actually doing so.

In addition I think that the putative founder or foundress is taking on a huge responsibility for those who follow her into the fledgling community. There must be a huge amount of support at all levels including financial. The Daughters of Mary Mother of the Eucharist in Ann Arbor were heavily underwritten by Tom Monaghan, the founder and CEO of Domino's pizza. There must be great spiritual support and sources for the training, which for the DMME came from their mother order, the Nashville Dominicans. Cardinal Cushing of New York founded the Sisters for Life and I am sure had many resources at his disposal.[/quote]
It was Cardinal O'Connor (who was Bishop O'Connor at the time) who founded the Sisters of Life.

[jkaands]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1543460' date='May 26 2008, 01:30 PM']It was Cardinal O'Connor (who was Bishop O'Connor at the time) who founded the Sisters of Life.[/quote]

Sorry.

However, the point remains.