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IgnatiusofLoyola
[quote name='krissylou' date='07 July 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1278554461' post='2139147']
Benedictines should be in charge of the guest house, and setting out prayer books (with bookmarks! Those things are confusing!) for guests in the chapel.

The Poor Clares and Carmelites can hide behind the cloister if they want. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]

I wanna be an oblate.
[/quote]

I wondered about oblates, because there are certain PM pholks I certainly would like to have in the Community such as Catherine M, and CherieMadame, and I doubt either of them would give up their husbands, not to mention the little one coming soon. But, normally oblates don't live in the community, and it would be nice if as many of us as possible could live together. So, maybe we can come up with some sort of "in-between" status, such as a "permanent discerner." And, we haven't even dealt with what to do with people like Hilde and me, who aren't even Catholics, because it would be a HUGE loss to the community if we weren't members. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] Plus, I WANT to belong, so I'll find a way. Imaginary communities are good that way. If we decide to make it a contemplative or semi enclosed community, we will want extern sisters.

And, that could be another reason to have some hermitages, so married members could live in their own cottage. BTW Cherie Madame--when your new son arrived, he will be the most loved child anywhere. Edited by IgnatiusofLoyola

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krissylou
I like Benedict's rule that there should be two (substantial) dishes at each meal -- that way if you don't like one you can just eat the other, no problem. But not more -- if you don't like EITHER you're just being overly picky.

(Not EXACTLY Benedict's phrasing, but it's the idea.)

And also, the definition of being late for office is to show up after the first psalm is completely chanted. Being late is Bad. So, the monks are instructed to be sure to chant that first psalm slowly and thus give stragglers as much time as possible to scamper in. :sweat:

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IgnatiusofLoyola
[quote name='CatherineM' date='07 July 2010 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1278546175' post='2139096']
Every time we do one of these, the boys invade.

This is my idea of a great treehouse.

[img]http://www.maldives-holiday-direct.co.uk/Images/diva-beach-hammock.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

I don't see any reason why the boys would invade. CatherineM--I picture you sending away boys who want to invade with simply a glare--no words required.

Some men WILL be required, and even nice to have around. We'll need at least a priest or two. And, having some men around to take care of chores, construction jobs, etc. would not be a bad thing. Other Orders manage to keep the men from trying to run things, so we should be able to succeed. I like men, in their proper place.

As for your photo, I started drooling immediately, even if it is hot outside. I do miss swimming in the Caribbean. One possibility is to pick an area where we would have lots of land that includes both forest and warm seashore and beaches. The closest I can come to that in the U.S. are the barrier islands off of North and South Carolina (like Hilton Head), that have beautiful beaches, with warm water, AND forests nearby. We can certainly let our imaginations create a new one.

Off the top of my head, there are two options I can think of for where "necessary men" would live. (The rest of you can probably come up with others.) Either men (including priests--but not including spouses) would live offshore, and could come by boat or helicopter. (Spouses would live in hermitages with their wives and children.) Or else, we could wall off the majority of the island, with the rest of the island available to related "seculars." That would be more convenient for the men who come to visit, but we'd have to assume that we owned the whole island so we'd wouldn't have to worry about development encroaching on our peace. That part of the U.S. has lovely weather 9 months of the year, but summer IS hot. However, I strongly vote that the major areas of the monastery be air conditioned. Perhaps the monastery could be designed so that Sisters living in cells or hermitages could set their own temperatures for their living quarters, so if they want to go without air conditioning, that is their choice. Edited by IgnatiusofLoyola

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IgnatiusofLoyola
[quote name='JTheresa' date='07 July 2010 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1278549862' post='2139118']
Finally!! I found a decent picture of a cell:

[img]http://www.carmelslc.org/pk3bu.jpg[/img]

It's just missing a desk.
[/quote]

I've seen some other pictures of cells--I just have to try to remember where I saw them. The cells I've seen are essentially the same size and as simple as this one is, but they have desks. A desk is a necessity, especially for Dominicans. Edited by IgnatiusofLoyola

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IgnatiusofLoyola
[quote name='Mary Veronica' date='07 July 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1278552305' post='2139129']
Also do aspirants have to take a psychological test? and should it be a PMer that gives that test?

Any particular perequisites? like do we have to know how to dance [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/twist.gif[/img] to be a Franciscan? or have a future potential for fatal-illnesses to be a Carmelite [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sick.gif[/img]?
[/quote]

I vote for no psychological tests. I have a sneaking suspicion that we're all a little crazy, and some of us might not pass. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif[/img] Obviously we don't want serial killers, but some eccentricities make for a more interesting community.

Also, there will be no health requirements (or alternatively, since this is a fantasy, we can decide to assume that we are all perfectly healthy, mentally and physically, just as we are all between 18 and 35). [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img]

I suspect I may not be the only one who will need some accomodations. As much as I'd love a treehouse, I find stairs very difficult, and I'd be worried about emergencies. (But, I have seen pictures of striking buildings on the ground, that have been built around a tree.) The monastery itself would need at least one elevator. And, although I kid about needing 9-10 hours of sleep, in truth, it is a physical necessity for me--hence my interest in a hermitage, and maybe some extra soundproofing for my cell, which I'd ask to be in the quietest part of the cloister. I may not be able to make it to all the prayers (or even all the meals), and any "work" I did couldn't be physical. I'd need an assistant librarian to help me in the library with shelving books, etc. I also might have to be excused from some activities, such as the "rosary walk" because I'm not able to walk that far. I might have to do a "Rosary sit."

I'd be genuinely afraid that the other Sisters would get resentful that I was not doing "my fair share" of contributing to the community, but unfortunately that is my "reality" right now. So, while I would thoroughly enjoy the cloister gardens, I couldn't help plant them. I might need to be excused on a regular basis from some early morning prayers because I literally cannot get out of bed that early. If I push myself too hard physically, I am bedridden and in pain for a couple of days, so "extra efforts" backfire. I'm always looking at the "portion" of energy my body has each day, and each day figure out the most important things I need to do that day with the energy I have.

Because of the pain I'm in, I wouldn't be able to sleep on a thin Carmelite mattress, as much as I respect those who do so without complaint. Something as seemingly simple as a softer bed, for me can mean the difference between been in pain, and possibly bedridden, and being able to accomplish some tasks. Sorry to be such a downer, but if you know this, then it won't seem like I'm being a princess if I need a cushion in my choir stall, or need air conditioning and heat in my cell because my body doesn't regulate its temperate well. (For example, if I get too physically hot, I develop a fever.)

As for the requirements above for various orders, tuberculosis is treatable now, and relatively rare in the U.S. anyway, so the St. Therese "wannabes" will have to emulate her in other ways. And, I don't see why the Franciscans should be the only ones who get to dance if they want.

Beer and coffee sound great, but we'll also have plenty of other fluids for those of us who are tea and lemonade drinkers. Edited by IgnatiusofLoyola

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Mary Veronica
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/clap.gif[/img]that resolves a lot Edited by Mary Veronica

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krissylou
The Whitesville Passionists have an oblate who lives with them inside the enclosure.

And Benedictine oblates can be any baptized Christian, not necessarily Catholic. So that could take care of the Protestants among us (or Orthodox if any of them wanted to join too)!

In our merry combination of charisms, I say there should be space for non-Catholic oblates to live in.

(it is a mystery to me that other secular orders do not seem to have noticed that having Kathleen Norris (Presbyterian) has worked out rather well for the Benedictines!)

And, of course, Trappist beer and chocolates!!!

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laetitia crucis
[quote name='Hilde' date='08 July 2010 - 06:09 PM' timestamp='1278626966' post='2139482']
We should have a choir. We could sing like in sister act but also gregorian and such.
[/quote]


:yahoo:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyYNcpWhVbk[/media]

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IgnatiusofLoyola
[quote name='krissylou' date='08 July 2010 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1278624668' post='2139471']
The Whitesville Passionists have an oblate who lives with them inside the enclosure.

And Benedictine oblates can be any baptized Christian, not necessarily Catholic. So that could take care of the Protestants among us (or Orthodox if any of them wanted to join too)!

In our merry combination of charisms, I say there should be space for non-Catholic oblates to live in.

(it is a mystery to me that other secular orders do not seem to have noticed that having Kathleen Norris (Presbyterian) has worked out rather well for the Benedictines!)

And, of course, Trappist beer and chocolates!!!
[/quote]

I didn't know the Whitesville Passionists had an oblate who lives with them inside the enclosure. Do you know what she does for the community?

Actually, I'm not sure what an oblate is--and it's probably different things for different communities. I'll have to do some reading up, and if anyone could explain or point me to an explanation that would be apprecated. I'd want to feel like I "belonged," in our imaginary community, not just someone who lived with them.

But, maybe I can't have it both ways. I'm not ready to convert. If I've learned anything these past few months it's that I can't lie to myself, and I can't believe God would want that. And, I still have no clue what the future holds.

Keeps me humble, I guess. But, right now I don't feel like I belong anywhere or to anyone.......

I was having so much fun helping plan our imaginary physical community to go along with our online community. But, I guess I'm not really part of that, either........

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vee
[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='08 July 2010 - 06:17 PM' timestamp='1278631030' post='2139509']

Keeps me humble, I guess. But, right now I don't feel like I belong anywhere or to anyone.......

I was having so much fun helping plan our imaginary physical community to go along with our online community. But, I guess I'm not really part of that, either........
[/quote]

:console: Having a bad day?

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IgnatiusofLoyola
[quote name='vee8' date='08 July 2010 - 07:46 PM' timestamp='1278636404' post='2139542']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/console.gif[/img] Having a bad day?
[/quote]

I actually was having an okay day (neither bad nor good) until I read about oblates. It was suprisingly depressing. It makes sense for me to be an oblate, since there would be a number of ways I wouldn't be able to participate fully in the community, and I guess it's better than being told I could join. But until I read about that option, I was thinking I could be a real member. <sigh>

Odd how real an imaginary community can feel real.

Plus, I wanted to be a Sister (even one with a silly name) and I have cape envy! Edited by IgnatiusofLoyola

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Mary Veronica
[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='08 July 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1278638721' post='2139547']
I actually was having an okay day (neither bad nor good) until I read about oblates. It was suprisingly depressing. It makes sense for me to be an oblate, since there would be a number of ways I wouldn't be able to participate fully in the community, and I guess it's better than being told I could join. But until I read about that option, I was thinking I could be a real member. <sigh>

Odd how real an imaginary community can feel real.

Plus, I wanted to be a Sister (even one with a silly name) and I have cape envy!
[/quote]


I of L, you're one of the kindest and most thoughtful people I've seen on here, and that's something that completely wins Our Lord. don't feel left out, we could all learn from you. If we take the time to recall, Our Lord had many times showed greater and unforgetable affection for those outside the Jewish faith and even to teach His own apostles a lesson. And these apostles were ready to follow him at every word and step, and yet they didn't "get" the faith of the centurion, or the simplicity of the children, or the joy of the woman at the well, or the gratitude of the woman who bathed his feet with tears and dried them with her hair. until his apostles learned how, that's what made them good followers. Everyone in the world has a place in His Heart, and we uplift and love eachother in ways far above the titles, habits, and institutions. Our Lord taught love above all things, each of our levels of faith and beliefs aren't meant to diminish it, but to help fulfill it.

[size="2"][size="2"]I don't know about the others, but I[/size] [/size]would like you to be a full member of the Ppc, you make everone feel included, amidst all the poking and teasing between charisms. if you can't be a real member, I want out. but I'm stealing away with my cape! Edited by Mary Veronica

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krissylou
Oh dear me!

I thought I was being all clever finding a way to actually include Protestants in the community (in which I include myself, btw).

Several orders have ways for non-consecrated laypeople, who can get married and such, to nevertheless be FULL MEMBERS of the order. They go by different names -- Tertiaries, Seculars, Oblates, whatever. It's all basically the same concept.

(I think historically, monasteries have had some role called "oblate" and it's meant a lot of different things. I don't know all of that -- let's just keep to the contemporary version.)

So, these days there are about a gazillion different communities you can join if you want to be Franciscan. There used to be THREE. The Order of Friars Minor. The Poor Ladies (aka Poor Clares). And the Third Order of St. Francis, now called the Order of Secular Franciscans. These are laypeople who lived in the world, got married and such, but did so in the spirit of St. Francis -- and there's a Rule and all that.

ALL of these were equally Franciscan. Just different forms.

Catherine of Siena was a Dominican Tertiary, not a Dominican nun. Ask any Dominican nun if they consider Catherine of Siena to be "truly one of their own." The answer will be a resounding yes.

A person who is affiliated with a monastery without being a vowed religious is an oblate. I think, historically, oblates lived within the monastery but didn't take vows. But I could be wrong. Now it is much more likely that they're out and about in the world, but with a Benedictine (or whatever else) spirit and follow the Rule in ways suited to secular life.

The point is, they ARE Benedictines. Can even use letters after their name and everything, e.g. Kathleen Norris, Obl.S.B.

Or, you could be like Christie with the Whitesville Passionists and live in. Just going from their blog, her life looks dang similar to the nuns' -- except she can leave if she decides "okay that was good for a season but now time to do something else." She doesn't wear a habit but does have a "uniform" sort of dress that seems similar to the postulant's.

In our community, bring on the capes!!!

Or OOOOH, I got it. We could be Carmelite/Franciscan/Dominican/Benedictine (plus reforms thereof to bring in Trappist beer and chocolate) AND incorporate Taize (which is recognized by the Catholic Church) and be ecumenical.

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Mary Veronica
[quote name='krissylou' date='08 July 2010 - 11:57 PM' timestamp='1278642435' post='2139583']
In our community, bring on the capes!!!

Or OOOOH, I got it. We could be Carmelite/Franciscan/Dominican/Benedictine (plus reforms thereof to bring in Trappist beer and chocolate) AND incorporate Taize (which is recognized by the Catholic Church) and be ecumenical.
[/quote]


[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sadder.gif[/img] you had me on the capes...<3

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krissylou
[quote name='Mary Veronica' date='08 July 2010 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1278643404' post='2139608']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sadder.gif[/img] you had me on the capes...<3
[/quote]
Is it wrong that I keep thinking of the lady from The Incredibles:

"No capes!!! Never capes!!!"

:huh:

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Mary Veronica
[quote name='krissylou' date='09 July 2010 - 12:29 AM' timestamp='1278644378' post='2139624']
Is it wrong that I keep thinking of the lady from The Incredibles:

"No capes!!! Never capes!!!"

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif[/img]
[/quote]


(shuddering) UNTHINKABLE! I MUST SAY! That's MADNESS! ABSOLUTE BABBLING MADNESS! We're not going to fight crime and fly with them!....[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif[/img] don't anyone get any ideas.


yeah[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/detective.gif[/img] that was a good family movie, I like the shy gothic girl who dissappears.

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JTheresa
I of L, I'm so sorry to hear that you feel left out!! I was totally intending on asking if anyone would care if you and some of the other leading members of VS could make up the community council. And don't forget that there are other communities of Sisters outisde of the Catholic Church. Catholic or not, our community of sister should be made up or women who are dedicated to fully giving our lives to God and serving His children. Period. You don't have to be Catholic to do that, but the Catholics were just the first ones (I think) to come up with the idea. You are a valueable member of VS and have already contributed a lot to this imaginary community. Can you imagine what state our library would be in if we didn't have your master library skills?

And so, Sister Mary Polycarp of the Late Rising, I have a very important question to ask you. With your extensive knowledge of saints, who would you recommend readin if I want to brush up on my Theology?
Love and prayers!
Sister Lucy Marie of the Infant Lord

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krissylou
Well Sister Mary Polycarp of the Late Rising, we seem to have consensus that the Phatmass Phemale Community is open to everybody.

Who needs my canonical creativity? Not us! :lol_roll:

I think this is grand.

(Don't tell the Vatican.)

I like communities that use their baptismal names. Is it okay if I do that?

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