The Ppc

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1278711211' post='2140106']
I wouldn't mind being Sister Mary Christmas because, as I wrote in some obscure thread before, when I was a teen I got to play Mary at the church nativity play. It was really special then and even more so now thinking back. I got to wear a blue veil and I remember thinking how I never wanted to take it off! Now, a few years and a ton of sins later, I can't even begin to believe Mary might permit me to dress like her again ... for the rest of my life. I don't mind if the veil isn't blue this time either! Black is very ok
[/quote]

My "Mary" veil was a light sky blue -- very much the color of the veils of the Franciscans Sisters of the Immaculate. Even as a little Baptist child, I wanted to keep wearing that veil.

So that makes THREE of us that have played Mary in a Christmas nativity play.... me, you, and Ignatius!! I think that's pretty cool.

Anyone else?

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 July 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1278718437' post='2140189']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif[/img]

I concur with your request! (Apparently, he and Teresa must have been friends when it came to serious picture-painting time... [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/P.gif[/img] Hahaha!)
[/quote]

I like all the pictures you posted! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I was going to tell Vee that we'd use a less dour picture of St. Thomas Aquinas if she would give us one of a smiling St. Teresa. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] But, that is unfair because I think it was the custom to paint religious figures with serious faces. I'm not sure exactly why, but one guess might be that a painting of a laughing saint might be considered irreverent.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Oh my.

Look what I miss when I'm gone for a few days! Shows me to go missing.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1278718930' post='2140193']
I like all the pictures you posted! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I was going to tell Vee that we'd use a less dour picture of St. Thomas Aquinas if she would give us one of a smiling St. Teresa. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] But, that is unfair because I think it was the custom to paint religious figures with serious faces. I'm not sure exactly why, but one guess might be that a painting of a laughing saint might be considered irreverent.
[/quote]

I thought this one looked somewhat "cheerful" for Teresa:

[img]http://catholickermit.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/st-teresa-of-avila-icon.jpeg[/img]



Well, actually she looks kind of smirkish to me, but I like it!

Maybe it's that tambourine that brings it out of her. I imagine her thinking, "Teehee." behind that "Mona Lisa"-esque expression.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 July 2010 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1278718879' post='2140192']
My "Mary" veil was a light sky blue -- very much the color of the veils of the Franciscans Sisters of the Immaculate. Even as a little Baptist child, I wanted to keep wearing that veil. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sweat.gif[/img]

So that makes THREE of us that have played Mary in a Christmas nativity play.... me, you, and Ignatius!! I think that's pretty cool.

Anyone else? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/woot.gif[/img]
[/quote]

In the church my family attended, you "worked your way up" from an angel as a toddler, then to Wise Men, etc. The funny thing is, I can't remember being in any Nativity play other than when I was Mary, although I must have been. I have no idea why they picked me as Mary--maybe they figured I could be counted on to remember my lines. (Which I did.)

My blue veil--and a white gown like a habit--was more of a medium blue.

I got to wear a veil again (white this time) when I was confirmed, and I loved that veil, too. (In the Episcopal church, at least when I was growing up, there was no "First Communion" around age 7. Instead, a person didn't take communion until after they were confirmed, which was usually at about age 12 or 13, although adults might be confirmed too, at the same service. For confirmation we wore the white dresses and veils that are commonly associated with "First Communion" in the Catholic church.)

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1278719470' post='2140197']
In the church my family attended, you "worked your way up" from an angel as a toddler, then to Wise Men, etc. The funny thing is, I can't remember being in any Nativity play other than when I was Mary, although I must have been. I have no idea why they picked me as Mary--maybe they figured I could be counted on to remember my lines. (Which I did.)

My blue veil--and a white gown like a habit--was more of a medium blue.

I got to wear a veil again (white this time) when I was confirmed, and I loved that veil, too. (In the Episcopal church, at least when I was growing up, there was no "First Communion" around age 7. Instead, a person didn't take communion until after they were confirmed, which was usually at about age 12 or 13, although adults might be confirmed too, at the same service. For confirmation we wore the white dresses and veils that are commonly associated with "First Communion" in the Catholic church.)
[/quote]

I've always loved seeing people wear the veils and white dresses for First Communions! My first year teaching CCD I was assigned to the "First Communion" class. When I walked in on the Big Day I was just... both astounded and tickled pink seeing all the little girls dressed in mini-wedding dresses -- with veils, veils-with-tiaras, gloves, etc. I admit, I got a little verklempt.

I've always wanted to wear a wedding dress with wedding veil -- what girl doesn't, right? -- and to think, when you're a youngin' receiving Jesus for the first time (or being Confirmed), you get to wear this! How cool is that?

Hmmm... so, this leads me to ask: In our PPC, can we wear wedding dresses w/wedding veil right before we're invested in our novice habits? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

[vee]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1278718930' post='2140193']
I like all the pictures you posted! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I was going to tell Vee that we'd use a less dour picture of St. Thomas Aquinas if she would give us one of a smiling St. Teresa. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] But, that is unfair because I think it was the custom to paint religious figures with serious faces. I'm not sure exactly why, but one guess might be that a painting of a laughing saint might be considered irreverent.
[/quote]
Actually the expressions in icons are in a style called brightsadness. Please google for more info.

Edited to add.... this sounds a bit silly but one of the things I want to see heaven is all the saints, Teresa in particular, and Jesus, Mary etc SMILING like this

Edited July 10, 2010 by vee8

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 July 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1278719879' post='2140201']
I've always loved seeing people wear the veils and white dresses for First Communions! My first year teaching CCD I was assigned to the "First Communion" class. When I walked in on the Big Day I was just... both astounded and tickled pink seeing all the little girls dressed in mini-wedding dresses -- with veils, veils-with-tiaras, gloves, etc. I admit, I got a little verklempt.

I've always wanted to wear a wedding dress with wedding veil -- what girl doesn't, right? -- and to think, when you're a youngin' receiving Jesus for the first time (or being Confirmed), you get to wear this! How cool is that?

Hmmm... so, this leads me to ask: In our PPC, can we wear wedding dresses w/wedding veil right before we're invested in our novice habits? Pretty please with a cherry on top? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/D.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I don't see why not. I like the custom. It gives a very strong "bride of Christ" imagery to the clothing ceremony, IMO. It's funny, when I first heard of it (many years ago), it sounded strange. But, now that I've seen pictures/videos on the Internet of clothing ceremonies where the postulants enter wearing wedding dresses, I find it very moving.

We'll have to see how others feel. I know that not all Orders do this, but I don't know if women joining those Orders don't like this custom, or if they are simply happy to follow the tradition of their particular Order and community. We'll find a way to make it all work.

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 July 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1278719879' post='2140201']
I've always loved seeing people wear the veils and white dresses for First Communions! My first year teaching CCD I was assigned to the "First Communion" class. When I walked in on the Big Day I was just... both astounded and tickled pink seeing all the little girls dressed in mini-wedding dresses -- with veils, veils-with-tiaras, gloves, etc. I admit, I got a little verklempt.

I've always wanted to wear a wedding dress with wedding veil -- what girl doesn't, right? -- and to think, when you're a youngin' receiving Jesus for the first time (or being Confirmed), you get to wear this! How cool is that?

Hmmm... so, this leads me to ask: In our PPC, can we wear wedding dresses w/wedding veil right before we're invested in our novice habits? Pretty please with a cherry on top?
[/quote]

I don't like my First Communion pics because I looked like a dork! I had glasses and the style my mom picked for my hair was terrible! My Mom kept my veil though so maybe I can use it again for something in the future but it needs to be reworked a bit because the fake flowers on the comb are good for a 7 yo but not when you add like twenty years onto that! I'm all for wedding dresses in the PPC! is there any woman in existance that doesnt want to wear one for mr perfect? Ok I had thought I'd wear one in a regular wedding to a great guy but for a kind of spiritual /symbolic union to Jesus..... yeah I could do that too!

[vee]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1278712543' post='2140138']
One of my endless questions: Do we know that Mary wore a blue veil? Okay, I know I'm on controversial ground, and the issue of tradition versus writings in the Bible, and writings from others who lived in that time. I'm not questioning the tradition of Mary wearing a blue veil--I just don't know where it came from. I have NO idea what the normal dress was for young married women in that place and time.

That said, black veils have other lovely meanings, such as being symbolic of being dead to worldly things. Other Orders choose white for purity. But, I can understand the feeling of feeling as if you are not worthy to dress like Mary. That's a humility I have a lot of respect for. On the other hand, I can understand Orders that wear blue veils to show their love and respect for Mary, and as a constant reminder to strive to be like Mary.

I'd forgotten, but I also played Mary (wearing a blue veil) in the Christmas pageant one year. I loved that veil. Maybe that's where I got my love of veils. As a little girl, I used to wear a petticoat on my head as a veil, but it alternated between being a veil for a bride or wearing a veil like a nun. I was confused, even as a child! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] (And, at that time, I didn't know that nuns/Sisters were considered "brides of Christ" or know that in some Orders, postulants wear bridal gowns in their clothing ceremony.)
[/quote]

Hmmm I have no idea how blue became the color commonly associated with Mary, maybe it was from some apparition

That's awesome you got to play Mary too! Former Mary actresses group hug At least you wore a petticoat on your head playing pretend and not pettipants! Wearing pettipants on ones head would be something i'd do I don't remember playing nun as a child because i had never seen a real life habited nun so it wasn't on my radar at all.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 08:41 PM' timestamp='1278726063' post='2140289']
Hmmm I have no idea how blue became the color commonly associated with Mary, maybe it was from some apparition [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/think_head.gif[/img]

That's awesome you got to play Mary too! Former Mary actresses group hug [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif[/img] At least you wore a petticoat on your head playing pretend and not pettipants! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif[/img] Wearing pettipants on ones head would be something i'd do [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sweat.gif[/img] I don't remember playing nun as a child because i had never seen a real life habited nun so it wasn't on my radar at all.
[/quote]

I don't remember seeing any nuns in real life, but I saw pictures and heard about them. There are Episcopalian nuns, so becoming a nun myself was a possibility, although it was never discussed that much. We had neighbors and friends who went to the local Catholic school, and they would talk a lot about the nuns.

Also, my late aunt was a convert to Catholicism, and was the type who gives converts a bad name because she was always so "obvious" in her holiness. She truly was a good woman. She was a former nurse until she had children, and after her children were grown, she volunteered as part of a program that would bring badly deformed children from Latin American countries to the U.S., and doctors at Stanford would perform reconstructive surgery for free. The children would live at my aunt's house (usually with their mother, as well) after they were out of the hospital, and getting well enough for the next in what was usually a series of operations that took months.

If only my aunt hadn't "talked" so much about all the wonderful Sisters she knew and how often she went to church, etc. I think her example was one of the reasons why I've always believed so strongly in doing good "by stealth." Somehow, to me, because my aunt talked so much about all the wonderful "Catholic" things she did, it made them less meaningful, especially because she talked about them with family members she knew weren't Catholic. But, interestingly, this aunt WAS my godmother.

[vee]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1278727278' post='2140302']
If only my aunt hadn't "talked" so much about all the wonderful Sisters she knew and how often she went to church, etc. I think her example was one of the reasons why I've always believed so strongly in doing good "by stealth." Somehow, to me, because my aunt talked so much about all the wonderful "Catholic" things she did, it made them less meaningful, especially because she talked about them with family members she knew weren't Catholic. But, interestingly, this aunt WAS my godmother.
[/quote]

What a wonderful story about your aunt! Half the time Im on here Im on my ipod so I cant type as much as Id like because it takes forever, the other half of the time I can get on the computer when no one is around (like now) and type much faster! That said I like reading long posts. Maybe your aunt talked about those things because she was excited about them and just couldnt keep it inside, and she didnt realize you found it annoying.

Edited to add
LC all those pics of Thomas are fantastic! very excellent for the chapel although Im not sure they would all fit unless our "chapel" is bigger than I imagine the average chapel to be! Now I must see what I can find for Carmelite decorations

Edited July 10, 2010 by vee8

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 09:30 PM' timestamp='1278729004' post='2140327']
What a wonderful story about your aunt! Half the time Im on here Im on my ipod so I cant type as much as Id like because it takes forever, the other half of the time I can get on the computer when no one is around (like now) and type much faster! That said I like reading long posts. Maybe your aunt talked about those things because she was excited about them and just couldnt keep it inside, and she didnt realize you found it annoying.

Edited to add
LC all those pics of Thomas are fantastic! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/twothumbsup.gif[/img] very excellent for the chapel although Im not sure they would all fit unless our "chapel" is bigger than I imagine the average chapel to be! Now I must see what I can find for Carmelite decorations [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/D.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I know you're giving my aunt the "benefit of the doubt" which is something I try to do, and don't always succeed.

I don't think my aunt was a bad person, I think she was just clueless about how she was coming across. I'm sure she was excited about what she was doing, but there are ways to talk about what you're doing that don't make you sound like you are "patting yourself on the back" when you talk about them.

Unfortunately, I am not the only one who had this reaction. And, I give much more leeway to someone who is very young or who is very new in their Catholic faith. My aunt, on the other hand, converted as a teenager after she was sent to a local Catholic girls high school, and so she had more than 70 years of being Catholic by the time she died.

As I said before, my aunt was a very good woman. But, I see her as an object lesson that somehow we have to balance living faithful and godly lives, and yet, at the same time, remain humble. Some of the greatest people I have known ("great" in very different ways) have been the most humble.

My mother (who is not religious, but not anti-Catholic) said to me recently, "Sister Helen (my friend from across the street) is the closest thing to a saint we're ever going to meet." Sister Helen had only one conversation with my mother, more than 10 years ago, and yet she made a huge impression on my mother. But, if I ever told Sister Helen that my mother and I both consider her a saint, she would laugh and (truly) not believe I meant what I said. THAT'S the way to be a Catholic and to be a light to the world--to give to others and yet remain sincerely humble. I suspect Sister Helen may have always been that way, but 60 years in religious life probably hasn't hurt, either.

Note on the PCC Carmelite art: Talk to JTeresa. She already is planning a separate small chapel devoted to Mary (with the community chapel devoted to St. Joseph--who I agreed was an excellent choice). From her description, JTeresa's Mary chapel will be very Carmelite in nature.

Those of us of Dominican tendencies are going to have to speak up, or the whole community will be Carmelite/Benedictine, with a little St. Francis thrown in if we have tree houses. My only "Dominican-like" contribution so far has been that the library will be large, with an excellent collection, and that the cells (and hermitages) need to have desks. So, speak up L-C!

Also, no matter what anyone else wears, my habit won't be black or brown, and will probably be at least mostly white. Maybe I can copy the Sisters of Life habit, but use a different shade of blue--or maybe purple or very dark red. Unfortunately light blue will still show stains. But, it will definitely have a cape!

In any case, I may institute my own "tradition" for the community that we have special "apron-like" smocks (similar to the work smocks of the Summit, NJ Dominicans) that we ALL wear during meals, as a way to cut back on cleaning costs and thus, be both frugal and ecological. Even for those with darker habits, it is not respectful to get food stains on one's scapular (of whatever color). [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/eat.gif[/img] We can even call them "Polly's pinnies" or something else equally stupid.

Edited July 10, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[vee]

Ok for Carmelite decorations Id like that Teresa and the tambourine icon in the chapel especially if we can find pics of other saints playing instruments too and put them in a grouping.

In the chapel as well, or maybe library would be better, I'd like this picture.

[img]http://blog.theologika.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/teresa-of-avila-rubens1.jpg[/img]

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1278732663' post='2140391']
Ok for Carmelite decorations Id like that Teresa and the tambourine icon in the chapel especially if we can find pics of other saints playing instruments too and put them in a grouping.

In the chapel as well, or maybe library would be better, I'd like this picture.

[img]http://blog.theologika.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/teresa-of-avila-rubens1.jpg[/img]
[/quote]



Oooh, yes! I like that one!

[laetitia crucis]

Ooo! And how about putting this sketch by St. John of the Cross somewhere in the chapel, too?

[img]http://espliego.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/drawing-by-st-john-of-the-cross.jpg[/img]

[laetitia crucis]

Okay, last picture for the night, I promise! (I'm past my bedtime! )

We simply must have at least one painting of my dear St. Ignatius:

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Detail_-_Glory_of_St_Ignatius_of_Loyola_-_Rubens_-_1616_-_KHM_-_Vienna.jpg[/img]

That's one of my favorites of him.

You know, this is rather random to say, but I honestly think of Ignatius lived during the time of Dominic, and if they had met... I think they'd be really great friends. And based on what I've read about their physical descriptions, they seem to have looked quite similar, too.

And well, who knows? Maybe Ignatius would have been a Dominican?

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 July 2010 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1278733034' post='2140401']
Ooo! And how about putting this sketch by St. John of the Cross somewhere in the chapel, too?

[img]http://espliego.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/drawing-by-st-john-of-the-cross.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Agreed! And also in the library this pic of John
[img]http://www.gwynethholston.com/img/gallery/John.JPG[/img]

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 July 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1278733797' post='2140413']
Okay, last picture for the night, I promise! (I'm past my bedtime! )

We simply must have at least one painting of my dear St. Ignatius:



That's one of my favorites of him.

You know, this is rather random to say, but I honestly think of Ignatius lived during the time of Dominic, and if they had met... I think they'd be really great friends. And based on what I've read about their physical descriptions, they seem to have looked quite similar, too.

And well, who knows? Maybe Ignatius would have been a Dominican?
[/quote]

Again I agree, it's shocking I know What would really be shocking is if I objected to that painting! As for Dominic and Ignatius meeting I'm sure they're up in heaven having a great time, possibly playing pool and Ignatius would be winning. What really boggles the mind is that one day hopefully we can be there with them.

Edited July 10, 2010 by vee8

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1278732663' post='2140391']
Ok for Carmelite decorations Id like that Teresa and the tambourine icon in the chapel especially if we can find pics of other saints playing instruments too and put them in a grouping.

In the chapel as well, or maybe library would be better, I'd like this picture.

[img]http://blog.theologika.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/teresa-of-avila-rubens1.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Showing my total ignorance, who is that? I'm pretty sure her name is probably Teresa based on the habit, but I don't know which one. I'd prefer St. Catherine of Siena.

BTW--I will have final say about the art in the library. I know you like bloody pictures, Vee8, but I've got kind of a phobia about blood. I can't control what's in the chapel, although I can request a stall that isn't looking at anything too bloody--unless you want me fainting all the time. (You think I'm kidding, but I'm not.) But there will be no blood in the library. It gets on the books and ruins them. And, pictures of St. Therese are not allowed--I always get the feeling she wrote in her cell anyway.

Edited July 10, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola