Carmelite Customs

[graciandelamadrededios 399]

Does anyone have anything to share regarding Customs of Discalced Carmelite Nuns?

[maximillion 1,968]

Until phatmass and the wealth of information I've read here, I made the mistake of thinking they were pretty much all the same.

How wrong can a person be?

[inperpetuity 281]

Each house has it's own set of customs I believe.  There are differences between the monasteries who follow the 1991 & 1990 constitutions and also between the Spanish and French founded monasteries.  I will let Chiquitunga and some others on here   :scholar:  who know more of the details give you a more complete answer. :smile2:

 

Edited June 1, 2013 by inperpetuity

[graciandelamadrededios 399]

One distinct custom of some Carmels in Italy and Austria; the two Carmels in Czech Republic has a distinct custom of pinning a wooden cross on their scapulars.  One wooden cross pinned outside the scapular and one pinned under the scapular.  When I emailed the photos to other Carmels, they were surprised seeing a cross outside the scapular since it is customary to pin the cross under the scapular.

 

It is true that customs may vary from Carmel to Carmel even before Vatican II.  The existence of the Manual for Divine Office and Ceremonial in forced before Vatican II made the custom unified with few variations.

 

After Vatican II, each Carme has been asked to formulate their own custom with consideration to the need and its suitability to the culture where the monastery is located. 

 

The Maravillas group in Spain came up with a Ceremonial published after Vatican II but it was never translated to English.  Mother Prioress of a 1990 Carmel in the US has no need for it so she sent it to me and unfortunately, my Spanish is very limited.

 

I certainly wish that Chiquitunga will join the discussion as I highly value her inputs.

 

 

 

 

[dymphnamaria 130]

 

 

I certainly wish that Chiquitunga will join the discussion as I highly value her inputs.

 

Don't worry,she will surely come when itcomes to Carmel discussions. :) 

I get curious with those photos,would you mind sharing it with us? And oh, welcome to Phatmass!

[graciandelamadrededios 399]

Oh Dymphnamaria, I tried today but I can't seem to do it right.  It says the file is too big?

 

Thanks for the welcome.  Are we allowed to share our email address here?

 

It would be easier for me to send it via email.  I am of old school.  :saint2:

[dymphnamaria 130]

You're welcome. I'll send you a pm.

[graciandelamadrededios 399]

http://www.stefanoquaglia.it/archivio/archivio_secondario/marleg/foto/madre_elisabetta.jpg

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios 399]

Please view the links and you can see Discalced Carmelite Nuns with wooden crosses pinned outside their scapulars:

 

http://www.stefanoquaglia.it/archivio/archivio_secondario/marleg/foto/madre_elisabetta.jpg

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hQslfuNzASU/TxLsbUc7nsI/AAAAAAAABlg/LU69RrTHdcs/s1600/Monastero+di+Legnano+fratie+monache.jpg

 

http://ilparadisononpuoattendere.blogspot.com/2012/02/monache-padri-e-frati-carmelitani.html

 

http://www.bologna.chiesacattolica.it/12porte/pagine/video_player.php?id=610

 

 

 

 

[vee 4,736]

they pray.  a lot.  :hehe:

[graciandelamadrededios 399]

Discalced Carmelite Nun with wooden crosses pinned under outside the scapular:

 

 

 

 

Discalced Carmelite Nuns with wooden crosses pinned outside their scapulars:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chiquitunga 822]

they pray.  a lot.  :hehe:

:lol:

[Chiquitunga 822]

One distinct custom of some Carmels in Italy and Austria; the two Carmels in Czech Republic has a distinct custom of pinning a wooden cross on their scapulars.  One wooden cross pinned outside the scapular and one pinned under the scapular.  When I emailed the photos to other Carmels, they were surprised seeing a cross outside the scapular since it is customary to pin the cross under the scapular.

 

It is true that customs may vary from Carmel to Carmel even before Vatican II.  The existence of the Manual for Divine Office and Ceremonial in forced before Vatican II made the custom unified with few variations.

 

After Vatican II, each Carme has been asked to formulate their own custom with consideration to the need and its suitability to the culture where the monastery is located. 

 

The Maravillas group in Spain came up with a Ceremonial published after Vatican II but it was never translated to English.  Mother Prioress of a 1990 Carmel in the US has no need for it so she sent it to me and unfortunately, my Spanish is very limited.

 

I certainly wish that Chiquitunga will join the discussion as I highly value her inputs.

 

 

Praised be Jesus Christ! Hello Gracian! I think you probably know much more about all the various customs Discalced Carmelite Nuns practice than I do! :smile3:

 

That is interesting regarding that Ceremonial you have from Spain. Although it wasn't translated into English, the Brooklyn Carmel might use it, as a few of the nuns there are from the Dominican Republic and were in one of the Toledo Carmels.

 

I did hear that Iron Mountain published one (after VII) that several Carmels use today - not sure which ones. Speaking of that Carmel, their wonderful booklet A Few Lines to Tell You is all online now here - http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015071151875;view=thumb;seq=1 I believe you told me you read this already though and lots of other books on Carmel too, most likely more than me :)

 

That is very interesting regarding the Italian Carmels wearing the wooden Crosses like that. I had noticed that in the pictures of Blessed Elia of St. Clement and Blessed Maria Candida of the Eucharist too.

 

 

 

Blessed Elia of St. Clement, OCD

 

 

 

 

Also, I'll post it here for everyone else, but as you pointed out to me in an email, there is a picture of a "Scapular Cross" that St. Teresa Margaret (another Italian Carmelite) wore here - http://www.stteresamargaret.org/Gallery3.htm

 

I'll keep searching when I have the chance and let you know if I ever find out the particular origins of this :detective:

 

I'm glad you figured out how to post pictures here, by the way :) Although actually if you have an image link, all you have to do is press the little square button with the tree and paste the link in there. I never use the other "My Media" button to post pictures here. Sometimes the pictures turn out too small or funny that way too. If the picture is just on your computer you can also upload it to a site like http://tinypic.com/ first to get an image link. Anyway, just letting you know :like:

[graciandelamadrededios 399]

 

Praised be Jesus Christ! Hello Gracian! I think you probably know much more about all the various customs Discalced Carmelite Nuns practice than I do! :smile3:

 

That is interesting regarding that Ceremonial you have from Spain. Although it wasn't translated into English, the Brooklyn Carmel might use it, as a few of the nuns there are from the Dominican Republic and were in one of the Toledo Carmels.

 

I did hear that Iron Mountain published one (after VII) that several Carmels use today - not sure which ones. Speaking of that Carmel, their wonderful booklet A Few Lines to Tell You is all online now here - http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015071151875;view=thumb;seq=1 I believe you told me you read this already though and lots of other books on Carmel too, most likely more than me :)

 

That is very interesting regarding the Italian Carmels wearing the wooden Crosses like that. I had noticed that in the pictures of Blessed Elia of St. Clement and Blessed Maria Candida of the Eucharist too.

 

 

 

Blessed Elia of St. Clement, OCD

 

 

 

 

Also, I'll post it here for everyone else, but as you pointed out to me in an email, there is a picture of a "Scapular Cross" that St. Teresa Margaret (another Italian Carmelite) wore here - http://www.stteresamargaret.org/Gallery3.htm

 

I'll keep searching when I have the chance and let you know if I ever find out the particular origins of this :detective:

 

I'm glad you figured out how to post pictures here, by the way :) Although actually if you have an image link, all you have to do is press the little square button with the tree and paste the link in there. I never use the other "My Media" button to post pictures here. Sometimes the pictures turn out too small or funny that way too. If the picture is just on your computer you can also upload it to a site like http://tinypic.com/ first to get an image link. Anyway, just letting you know :like:

 

Thanks for the tip!  I am new here and most of the time, I do not know what I am doing copy pasting photos!

 

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios 399]

Oh no!  What did I do? 

 

Hahaha!  I feel like a complete idiot!