Carmelite Customs

[graciandelamadrededios 398]

Does anyone have anything to share regarding Customs of Discalced Carmelite Nuns?

[maximillion 1,968]

Until phatmass and the wealth of information I've read here, I made the mistake of thinking they were pretty much all the same.

How wrong can a person be?

[inperpetuity 281]

Each house has it's own set of customs I believe.  There are differences between the monasteries who follow the 1991 & 1990 constitutions and also between the Spanish and French founded monasteries.  I will let Chiquitunga and some others on here   :scholar:  who know more of the details give you a more complete answer. :smile2:

 

Edited June 1, 2013 by inperpetuity

[graciandelamadrededios 398]

One distinct custom of some Carmels in Italy and Austria; the two Carmels in Czech Republic has a distinct custom of pinning a wooden cross on their scapulars.  One wooden cross pinned outside the scapular and one pinned under the scapular.  When I emailed the photos to other Carmels, they were surprised seeing a cross outside the scapular since it is customary to pin the cross under the scapular.

 

It is true that customs may vary from Carmel to Carmel even before Vatican II.  The existence of the Manual for Divine Office and Ceremonial in forced before Vatican II made the custom unified with few variations.

 

After Vatican II, each Carme has been asked to formulate their own custom with consideration to the need and its suitability to the culture where the monastery is located. 

 

The Maravillas group in Spain came up with a Ceremonial published after Vatican II but it was never translated to English.  Mother Prioress of a 1990 Carmel in the US has no need for it so she sent it to me and unfortunately, my Spanish is very limited.

 

I certainly wish that Chiquitunga will join the discussion as I highly value her inputs.

 

 

 

 

[dymphnamaria 130]

 

 

I certainly wish that Chiquitunga will join the discussion as I highly value her inputs.

 

Don't worry,she will surely come when itcomes to Carmel discussions. :) 

I get curious with those photos,would you mind sharing it with us? And oh, welcome to Phatmass!

[graciandelamadrededios 398]

Oh Dymphnamaria, I tried today but I can't seem to do it right.  It says the file is too big?

 

Thanks for the welcome.  Are we allowed to share our email address here?

 

It would be easier for me to send it via email.  I am of old school.  :saint2:

[dymphnamaria 130]

You're welcome. I'll send you a pm.

[graciandelamadrededios 398]

http://www.stefanoquaglia.it/archivio/archivio_secondario/marleg/foto/madre_elisabetta.jpg

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios 398]

Please view the links and you can see Discalced Carmelite Nuns with wooden crosses pinned outside their scapulars:

 

http://www.stefanoquaglia.it/archivio/archivio_secondario/marleg/foto/madre_elisabetta.jpg

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hQslfuNzASU/TxLsbUc7nsI/AAAAAAAABlg/LU69RrTHdcs/s1600/Monastero+di+Legnano+fratie+monache.jpg

 

http://ilparadisononpuoattendere.blogspot.com/2012/02/monache-padri-e-frati-carmelitani.html

 

http://www.bologna.chiesacattolica.it/12porte/pagine/video_player.php?id=610

 

 

 

 

[vee 4,734]

they pray.  a lot.  :hehe:

[graciandelamadrededios 398]

Discalced Carmelite Nun with wooden crosses pinned under outside the scapular:

 

 

 

 

Discalced Carmelite Nuns with wooden crosses pinned outside their scapulars:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chiquitunga 820]

they pray.  a lot.  :hehe:

:lol:

[Chiquitunga 820]

One distinct custom of some Carmels in Italy and Austria; the two Carmels in Czech Republic has a distinct custom of pinning a wooden cross on their scapulars.  One wooden cross pinned outside the scapular and one pinned under the scapular.  When I emailed the photos to other Carmels, they were surprised seeing a cross outside the scapular since it is customary to pin the cross under the scapular.

 

It is true that customs may vary from Carmel to Carmel even before Vatican II.  The existence of the Manual for Divine Office and Ceremonial in forced before Vatican II made the custom unified with few variations.

 

After Vatican II, each Carme has been asked to formulate their own custom with consideration to the need and its suitability to the culture where the monastery is located. 

 

The Maravillas group in Spain came up with a Ceremonial published after Vatican II but it was never translated to English.  Mother Prioress of a 1990 Carmel in the US has no need for it so she sent it to me and unfortunately, my Spanish is very limited.

 

I certainly wish that Chiquitunga will join the discussion as I highly value her inputs.

 

 

Praised be Jesus Christ! Hello Gracian! I think you probably know much more about all the various customs Discalced Carmelite Nuns practice than I do! :smile3:

 

That is interesting regarding that Ceremonial you have from Spain. Although it wasn't translated into English, the Brooklyn Carmel might use it, as a few of the nuns there are from the Dominican Republic and were in one of the Toledo Carmels.

 

I did hear that Iron Mountain published one (after VII) that several Carmels use today - not sure which ones. Speaking of that Carmel, their wonderful booklet A Few Lines to Tell You is all online now here - http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015071151875;view=thumb;seq=1 I believe you told me you read this already though and lots of other books on Carmel too, most likely more than me :)

 

That is very interesting regarding the Italian Carmels wearing the wooden Crosses like that. I had noticed that in the pictures of Blessed Elia of St. Clement and Blessed Maria Candida of the Eucharist too.

 

 

 

Blessed Elia of St. Clement, OCD

 

 

 

 

Also, I'll post it here for everyone else, but as you pointed out to me in an email, there is a picture of a "Scapular Cross" that St. Teresa Margaret (another Italian Carmelite) wore here - http://www.stteresamargaret.org/Gallery3.htm

 

I'll keep searching when I have the chance and let you know if I ever find out the particular origins of this :detective:

 

I'm glad you figured out how to post pictures here, by the way :) Although actually if you have an image link, all you have to do is press the little square button with the tree and paste the link in there. I never use the other "My Media" button to post pictures here. Sometimes the pictures turn out too small or funny that way too. If the picture is just on your computer you can also upload it to a site like http://tinypic.com/ first to get an image link. Anyway, just letting you know :like:

[graciandelamadrededios 398]

 

Praised be Jesus Christ! Hello Gracian! I think you probably know much more about all the various customs Discalced Carmelite Nuns practice than I do! :smile3:

 

That is interesting regarding that Ceremonial you have from Spain. Although it wasn't translated into English, the Brooklyn Carmel might use it, as a few of the nuns there are from the Dominican Republic and were in one of the Toledo Carmels.

 

I did hear that Iron Mountain published one (after VII) that several Carmels use today - not sure which ones. Speaking of that Carmel, their wonderful booklet A Few Lines to Tell You is all online now here - http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015071151875;view=thumb;seq=1 I believe you told me you read this already though and lots of other books on Carmel too, most likely more than me :)

 

That is very interesting regarding the Italian Carmels wearing the wooden Crosses like that. I had noticed that in the pictures of Blessed Elia of St. Clement and Blessed Maria Candida of the Eucharist too.

 

 

 

Blessed Elia of St. Clement, OCD

 

 

 

 

Also, I'll post it here for everyone else, but as you pointed out to me in an email, there is a picture of a "Scapular Cross" that St. Teresa Margaret (another Italian Carmelite) wore here - http://www.stteresamargaret.org/Gallery3.htm

 

I'll keep searching when I have the chance and let you know if I ever find out the particular origins of this :detective:

 

I'm glad you figured out how to post pictures here, by the way :) Although actually if you have an image link, all you have to do is press the little square button with the tree and paste the link in there. I never use the other "My Media" button to post pictures here. Sometimes the pictures turn out too small or funny that way too. If the picture is just on your computer you can also upload it to a site like http://tinypic.com/ first to get an image link. Anyway, just letting you know :like:

 

Thanks for the tip!  I am new here and most of the time, I do not know what I am doing copy pasting photos!

 

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios 398]

Oh no!  What did I do? 

 

Hahaha!  I feel like a complete idiot!

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios 398]

photos of Italian Discalced Carmelite Nuns with wooden crosses on top of their scapulars:

 

 

 

 

Video of the Italian Discalced Carmelite Nuns with wooden crosses on top of their scapulars:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC1Ffo78lxw

 

 

The music is inappropriate but the quality of video is very good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios 398]

photos of Austrian Discalced Carmelite Nuns with wooden crosses on top of their scapulars:

 

 

 

 

 

Sr. Aloysia

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VeniJesuAmorMi 510]

JM+JT

 

Praised be Jesus Christ! Now and forever.

 

I posted this in another thread, but the thread isn't around anymore, I purchased this book at a Carmelite monastery gift shop called, "Following the Path of Divine Love" by the Discalced Carmelites of Cerro de los Angeles and La Aldehuela Spain and it was translated into English by the Carmel in Buffalo NY. It just came out a year ago. It's about the life of Saint Mother Maravillas and about Carmel. (It can be bought at this website here: http://www.carmelite.org.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_SAINTS___BLESSEDS_OF_CARMEL_37.html ... it'll be somewhat expensive and shipped from the UK but I haven't found where else it can be purchased online.)

 

It is one of the best Carmelite books to read for one wanting to know more about Carmel and the customs (especially the Spanish customs.) Reverend Mother where I visited highly recommended for wanting to know more about life in Carmel it and it's really great. I just finished reading a chapter called "Our Life is a Very Good One" about the customs that are kept in Carmel throughout the year (what they do for feast days are beautiful and very touching) and letters from Mother Maravillas written to girls that were seeking entrance and the advise she gave them. If I have more time to spend on the computer sometime then maybe I could type up some of that chapter. Anyways, its a book to read for all those who are wanting to know more about Carmel and all of us with Carmelite hearts. :)

 

Edited June 4, 2013 by VeniJesuAmorMi

[OnlySunshine 4,552]

Have any of you ever read "Divine Intimacy" by Fr. Gabriel of St. Mary Magdalen, OCD?  A friend of mine entered the Buffalo Carmel and she told me, after her visit, that Mother Miriam said they read this.  It has daily meditations.  She said she purchased it for $25 or 35 for the full volume (hardback) in their gift shop which is a great deal considering it usually is $50 or more.  I really want to buy it because I love Fr. Gabriel's writings.  :)

[BarbaraTherese 1,997]

Oh no!  What did I do? 

 

Hahaha!  I feel like a complete idiot!

 

Welcome to Phatmass. :)

I wish I could help you and am hoping a member who knows more about Phatmass and computers than I do (my knowledge is not much at all) will post a reply or private message you and help you out - and perhaps some kind member has already done so.

 

  I have sometimes done the same as you did with no idea why it happened except that with me it is operator error and for me, not at all difficult to do on Phatmass - and I've been a member for a few years now.

 

Barb