Peace Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 minute ago, Ice_nine said: And it's interesting when it comes to violating cannon law, breaking/bending rules etc it's usually the liberal Catholics that use the "you're like a Pharisee" or "legalism" or "but this is what Jesus would really want" excuse. Below the belt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 hours ago, Ice_nine said: Some people cannot be reasoned with. And it's interesting when it comes to violating cannon law, breaking/bending rules etc it's usually the liberal Catholics that use the "you're like a Pharisee" or "legalism" or "but this is what Jesus would really want" excuse. Very interesting. We should be against violations of canon law no matter who does it. I don't know why we make excuses-- like it's not okay for the congregation to hold hands around the altar but it is okay for what happened in the incident above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Arguably, according to Canon 1211, the altar that Fr. Pavone used needs to be subjected to penitential rites before it is used for worship again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I don't believe he did break canon law... if he did I leave that between him and his superiors, not openly condemn him on social media and public forums (some of the comments I've seen are absolutely brutal.) As of yet, he doesn't seem to have been censured by his superiors. I rather speak of the evils of abortion rather than the evils of breaking canon law. That was his intention to bring the atrocity to light. I do believe his prayers and the prayers of the aborted unborn interceded for our country in this election. He is very happy this morning. pray for him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 hours ago, dominicansoul said: I don't believe he did break canon law... if he did I leave that between him and his superiors, not openly condemn him on social media and public forums (some of the comments I've seen are absolutely brutal.) As of yet, he doesn't seem to have been censured by his superiors. http://www.amarillodiocese.org/news/statement-from-bishop-patrick-j-zurek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 On 11/7/2016 at 3:27 PM, tinytherese said: As I mentioned on anothr thread, saturday at mass, our priest talked about the upcoming election and abortion for part of his homily. I wish that he would've dedicated his entire homily to the topic. After mass my dad confronted me twice so far on how disturbed he was that the Church would tell him who to vote for. He can't wrap his mind around how anyone can vote for Trump, the worst possible candidate. Dad kept listing the bad traits of Trump as if I was naiive to them. It wouldn't surprise me if between now and the election dad will try to show me anti-Trump videos, especially with Bill Maher. Dad watches him on youtube as it is and turns the volume up high. It isn't because he's hard of hearing. Dad doesn't watch tv that loud. He and his side of the family are big time democrats. I can easily picture Thanksgiving and Christmas seeing them and having them try to start an arguement with me on politics. If that happens, I'll leave their presence. I'm voting for McMullin. Dad thinks that it's a waste because it'll be either Trump or Hilary. Mom agrees with dad. She said she read what the USCCB had to say and listened to Fr. Dave and Cardinal Dolan who say to make your own decision. I find it hard to believe that they would approve of any Catholic voting for Clinton. I know it's a long shot and we can debate on how effective it is, but Clinton and Trump aren't our only options. We have third parties and write-ins. I have gotten that too. When they list the bad traits of Trump, I listen and wait for them to finish. Then I politely ask, please tell me the good traits of Hillary that would have me vote for her. I said this to my chiropractor. His response was he thinks Hillary will change and start to be and do good b/c she wants to leave behind a great legacy. I said, yes and it is that legacy that scares me. Her good and my good are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 7 hours ago, dominicansoul said: I don't believe he did break canon law... if he did I leave that between him and his superiors, not openly condemn him on social media and public forums (some of the comments I've seen are absolutely brutal.) As of yet, he doesn't seem to have been censured by his superiors. I rather speak of the evils of abortion rather than the evils of breaking canon law. That was his intention to bring the atrocity to light. I do believe his prayers and the prayers of the aborted unborn interceded for our country in this election. He is very happy this morning. pray for him... He did break canon law, that is indisputable. Already the bishop has opened an investigation, so certainly we should leave it to him to decide the appropriate action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Amppax said: He did break canon law, that is indisputable. Already the bishop has opened an investigation, so certainly we should leave it to him to decide the appropriate action. What's the need of an investigation if in fact he's guilty? It's a waste of time to appear to give him some semblance of duty process if his guilt is indisputable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 25 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said: What's the need of an investigation if in fact he's guilty? It's a waste of time to appear to give him some semblance of duty process if his guilt is indisputable. He has the right to be represented by a canon lawyer to ensure that his rights as a cleric are respected and due process is followed. There certainly could be mitigating or aggravating factors of which we are not yet aware. Suspension is a pretty serious punishment, so this process should be taken equally seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleWaySoul Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 10 hours ago, dominicansoul said: I don't believe he did break canon law... if he did I leave that between him and his superiors, not openly condemn him on social media and public forums (some of the comments I've seen are absolutely brutal.) As of yet, he doesn't seem to have been censured by his superiors. I rather speak of the evils of abortion rather than the evils of breaking canon law. That was his intention to bring the atrocity to light. I do believe his prayers and the prayers of the aborted unborn interceded for our country in this election. He is very happy this morning. pray for him... The very fact that his action was public and so widely condemned as unacceptable canonically makes it part of the external forum. You can't force it into the internal forum just by willing it. Caring about abiding by canon law and ending abortion are not mutually exclusive. Besides, disregarding canon law for the sake of a perceived good is still not justifiable morally. As a priest, Fr. Frank is expected to know this. I am also troubled to learn that this is not the first time he has acted against the will of his bishop and other Church leadership. We all want abortion ended. But this is NOT the way. Are we to sacrifice every other moral standard we have for the sake of this issue? That is the very definition of consequentialism and utilitarianism. The fact that I've been seeing so much of this among Catholics lately is gravely concerning to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 hour ago, LittleWaySoul said: Are we to sacrifice every other moral standard we have for the sake of this issue? That is the very definition of consequentialism and utilitarianism. The fact that I've been seeing so much of this among Catholics lately is gravely concerning to me. Hear, hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 2 hours ago, LittleWaySoul said: Are we to sacrifice every other moral standard we have for the sake of this issue? Why not when Catholics sacrifice every moral standard to vote for abortion rights and help Planned Parenthood and never a thing is heard from the local bishops about it? 2 hours ago, LittleWaySoul said: The very fact that his action was public and so widely condemned as unacceptable canonically makes it part of the external forum. You can't force it into the internal forum just by willing it. And when pro-abort politicians publicly testify that they are Catholic but for abortion and also receive Holy Communion....where are the canonical lawyers, bishops, priests, lay people's outrage for their actions??? I'm amazed how quick Catholics are to condemn a pro-life priest, call him crazy, treat him with disdain but you better not condemn a pro-abort's lavish Catholic funeral, or you better not speak ill of a pro-abort receiving Holy Communion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 You will have to be more specific regarding the Catholics to whom you are referring... For instance on multiple occasions I have stated my brief that pro abortion politicians should be denied communion under canon 915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 58 minutes ago, dominicansoul said: Why not when Catholics sacrifice every moral standard to vote for abortion rights and help Planned Parenthood and never a thing is heard from the local bishops about it? And when pro-abort politicians publicly testify that they are Catholic but for abortion and also receive Holy Communion....where are the canonical lawyers, bishops, priests, lay people's outrage for their actions??? I'm amazed how quick Catholics are to condemn a pro-life priest, call him crazy, treat him with disdain but you better not condemn a pro-abort's lavish Catholic funeral, or you better not speak ill of a pro-abort receiving Holy Communion. Why can't we condemn the action of a publicly pro-abortion politician receiving Holy Communion and condemn the action of a pro-life priest who desecrates an altar? Just because he's pro-life is he to get a free pass? That's kind of messed up. Edited November 10, 2016 by Seven77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 48 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said: You will have to be more specific regarding the Catholics to whom you are referring... For instance on multiple occasions I have stated my brief that pro abortion politicians should be denied communion under canon 915. That should have said belief, not brief. I was on my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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