morostheos Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Adeodatus, that is amesome!! One clarification of something that seems to be misleading in the last paragraph. Chastity does not mean not having sex, it means having sex only the way it was intended. It seems that they are talking about celibacy, not chastity. I know I'm being picky, but just to make sure everyone is clear on that. :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traichuoi Posted October 21, 2003 Author Share Posted October 21, 2003 Adeodatus, that is amesome!! One clarification of something that seems to be misleading in the last paragraph. Chastity does not mean not having sex, it means having sex only the way it was intended. It seems that they are talking about celibacy, not chastity. I know I'm being picky, but just to make sure everyone is clear on that. :D :D i don't think that's picky...i agree with you on that... i work with teens and we often get the misperception that chastity means not having premarital sex, when chastity encompasses more than that. husbands and wives are still called to be chaste within marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Adeodatus, that is amesome!! One clarification of something that seems to be misleading in the last paragraph. Chastity does not mean not having sex, it means having sex only the way it was intended. It seems that they are talking about celibacy, not chastity. I know I'm being picky, but just to make sure everyone is clear on that. :D :D I think that's why he uses the whole "this is meant for Dominican's" disclaimer. If I were talking to Dominicans about chastity I would talk about celibacy too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 traichuoi, you are amesome!!!! I know what you mean. Personally, I keep a journal for my future spouse and pray for him. He's probably going through what I'm going through, or worse! So I'm constantly praying for him. As far as lonliness, I really don't have any because I keep myself busy. If i start feeling lonely, I realize that I need to perservere- and keep busy! Helping with the youth, choir, other services, and you don't have time to think about yourself, all you have time to do is.....love and serve others! But Cmom is quite right too. Enjoy it! Embrace it! If your really serious, try out Ave Maria singles. They are a serious group of ppl looking for a Catholic spouse. It's pricey, but well worth it. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 morostheos, traichuoi, BLAZEr --- I think you're all correct. Thanks for pointing that out! It's because it's about Dominicans as vowed religious that chastity and celibacy seemed to have been reduced to a single thing in the extracts I posted. And just in case anyone reading this is confused, let me spell it out: 1) Chastity is a virtue, a gift from God. It involves living warm, affectionate friendships which are genuine. For married people it involves expressing their love in sex, in the hope of raising children. For the unmarried it means exercising genuine friendships without having sex, or voluntarily and consciously indulging in sexual pleasure, or even having a fear or dislike of sex (which is a gift from God after all). 2) Celibacy - it just means being unmarried. Many people confuse it with celibate chastity, but an unmarried person who is sexually promiscuous is still technically celibate. So celibacy by itself doesn't mean much. (the media tend to use celibacy like it means chastity). 3) Continence - not having sex at all. By itself it doesn't amount to much, because someone could be continent out of fear or even by default! Such a person isn't chaste, he or she is only afraid. Continence in the unmarried needs to be crowned with God's gift of chastity, to be made a virtue. Continence in the married could occur from time to time, as St Paul says, for prayer or maybe as NFP. But permanent continence in the married seems very inadvisable. So chastity is for everyone, celibacy is whether you're married or not, and continence depends on your situation, and it needs the grace of God to be a virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traichuoi Posted October 21, 2003 Author Share Posted October 21, 2003 thanks Adeodatus...I just learned something new today! I always thought celibacy meant chaste celibacy...freakin media :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I'm not singling anyone out here, but I want to point out the other side of the coin.... For all those who are pointing out the positive aspects of loneliness, please remember that things can be pushed too far. How many of you have nobody to come home to? No families? How many lost their families early in life and have had to essentially had to figure things out for themselves? For how many of you is Christmas dinner throwing a TV dinner in the oven? How many of you have to dread social occasions where everyone else has someone to accompany them and you don't? Or have to hear the whispers behind your back (or even in front of your face) of "Is he/she gay?" How many people have been lied to and stabbed in the back by people who say that to find the right person "just be a virtuous person and the right person will recognize it" only to find out that they prefer fornicating bums (and if they do get their brains straightened out they are a bunch of disease-ridden people who can't give you the 100% that you are giving them?)? How many of you have nobody - parents, siblings, nobody? How many of you will have children who will never be able to meet some of the older generation because they will have passed? For how many of you will death be like that man on the NW side of Chicago who was dead for four years and nobody knew about it because he had no family? For how many of you, in order to obey God, have you had to suppress your feelings for so long that you may not be able to get them back? For how many of you have you been alone so long that you don't know anything else, and even if God dropped the VCS (virgin Catholic supermodel) you wouldn't know what to do? How many of you are so used to it, like a battered wife is so used to her husband's beatings that she knows nothing else? For those who preach chastity, are you yourselves virgins, or were virgins on your wedding night? If you are not, do believe you know more than those who have held out longer than you? Trust me, I've been dealing with some of these issues longer than some of you kids have been alive, so take it from someone who has some experience in these matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 You can be lucky and have a family, or you can make a family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 (edited) I don't think any of us here would want to glorify loneliness. This thread began because traichuoi opened his/her heart to us and asked us how the rest of us coped. The point about chastity for single people is that it's not about running away. It's about giving ourselves in friendship, and maybe finding ourselves again in the process. It's about doing a positive thing which is the opposite of loneliness. As for virginity, no one has to be a virgin to be chaste. No one has to be a 'virgin sacrifice' to be a nun or sister or monk or priest or deacon or bishop, or inDouche to be a good Catholic. If we're virgins, fine---fantastic! Keep it that way till you're married. If we haven't been pure, fine, just go to confession. God can give us back our purity of heart. But God calls all of us to be chaste, to be friends --- good and true and caring friends ---- to each other. Chastity should help us to be friends to the friendless. And it is certainly not about 'suppressing' your feelings. It's about being really alive, channeling those energies outwards to other people. The term they use is 'sublimation'. The Pope and Blessed Mother Teresa are both great examples of saintly figures who sublimate their feelings into caring for other people. No suppression involved here at all! And let's not neglect married people, for whom chastity is the basis for a deep, wonderful and intimate friendship. This is a great example of how chastity is the enemy of loneliness. Edited October 21, 2003 by Adeodatus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notbilln Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Yeah, lonliness stinks. It may make you appreciate love once you find it,but as someone who has been alone for almost two years, it is hard. Every weekend I think to myself, all I need to do is head on down to ye olde tavern and turn on the bill charm and poof, loniless be gone! But, I know what will be expected of me, I cannot deliver. I've met women and been invited "up for coffee" a couple times. Thats a tough thing to do, and it takes a lot out of me. Its a shame because as evident from this thread it does lead us to be more cynical about the opposite gender and our society in general. I almost belive that all women are easy. If not for my out of town female freinds ,I wouldn't have any eveidence to the contrary. So, we hold these points to be self evident. That it is intrinsically difficult to find others of the same values in our daily lives. So what physical locations are there to meet those of simular persuasions? What wateringhole do we frequent in an attempt to find our better halves? Its as if we are an endangered species that needs special breeding ground sanctuaries. I appologize for the vernacular, but what places outside of church realted events do christian women congrigate. ( note I say christian and not catholic. If either my parents or grand parents had stayed with in their denominations, I wouldn't be here. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Start with Church :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notbilln Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Yeah, been there. Is it me or is it slightly sleazy to use church as a place to pick up women? I mean, it wouldn't be as bad if it was a church function, rather than mass itself. My one and only purpose of going to mass should be to grow closer to God. I guess I could go around to all functions of all the parishes in town, but even if I'm doing that it seems wrong to decide to join or not join a group based upon how many young women are members. Then again, its exactly this kind of thinking that keeps me single, and not a preist. Stupid Logical ethics. I should base them on something other than logic, but thats the only thing that comes natural to me. I think the only way to find my vocation in married life, or holy orders is to actually defy my own sense of right and wrong for the greater good of a productive life. That in a nutshell is my problem, or at least my current understanding of my situation as of today. Then again, I can never really trust my own analysis of the situation to be unbiased. Maybe I'm still single because I'm a jerk with out realising it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Yeah, lonliness stinks. It may make you appreciate love once you find it,but as someone who has been alone for almost two years, it is hard. Every weekend I think to myself, all I need to do is head on down to ye olde tavern and turn on the bill charm and poof, loniless be gone! But, I know what will be expected of me, I cannot deliver. I've met women and been invited "up for coffee" a couple times. Thats a tough thing to do, and it takes a lot out of me. Its a shame because as evident from this thread it does lead us to be more cynical about the opposite gender and our society in general. I almost belive that all women are easy. If not for my out of town female freinds ,I wouldn't have any eveidence to the contrary. So, we hold these points to be self evident. That it is intrinsically difficult to find others of the same values in our daily lives. So what physical locations are there to meet those of simular persuasions? What wateringhole do we frequent in an attempt to find our better halves? Its as if we are an endangered species that needs special breeding ground sanctuaries. I appologize for the vernacular, but what places outside of church realted events do christian women congrigate. ( note I say christian and not catholic. If either my parents or grand parents had stayed with in their denominations, I wouldn't be here. ) Hey, notbilln, I just read your profile and noticed something......we have the same birthday!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 (edited) Start with Church I'm going to say something controversial and catch a lot of flack, but I don't care, it has to be said and frankly I won't know I've done my job until, like the prophet Jeremiah, I've been thrown down a well: Opus Dei needs to desegregate more. With the exception of some of the events at the Opus Dei parish in Chicago, most are for either male or for female. I can understand keeping retreats segregated, but why not some of the evenings of recollection or circles? I'd be willing to even help out at an apologetics bible study..... Edited October 22, 2003 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notbilln Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Hey, notbilln, I just read your profile and noticed something......we have the same birthday!!!! Interesting. There are a lot of people with our birthday. My brother was born on my biirthday in 1985, and our neighbor had a child on April 15, 1986. Ah, the tax day children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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