Rome Makes A Statement On A Medjugorje Priest

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1644921' date='Sep 1 2008, 09:46 PM']Generally, knocking up a nun DOES tend to create some kind of disturbance in Catholic circles.[/quote]
Oh, man. Ya, that sends a tremor through the force.

[Domine ut Videam]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1644921' date='Sep 1 2008, 09:46 PM']Generally, knocking up a nun DOES tend to create some kind of disturbance in Catholic circles.[/quote]

WHAT?! Hold up! He got a nun pregnant??? Where is a source/article/something about this? I had no idea, not that I really follow Medjugorie, but i have friends that do!

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Domine ut Videam' post='1644960' date='Sep 1 2008, 11:43 PM']WHAT?! Hold up! He got a nun pregnant??? Where is a source/article/something about this? I had no idea, not that I really follow Medjugorie, but i have friends that do![/quote]

Waaay back in Phatmass' own archives I found a post on Fr. Vlasic which included the documentation for this story:

[quote]Here is the other one:

Like his fellow Franciscan, Father Vego, Father Vlasic had also made a nun pregnant.15 When their child was born at the beginning of 1977, he did not leave the order to marry the woman named Mada (formerly Sister Rufina), but begged her not to expose him as the father, assuring her that it she kept the matter secret she would be like Mary, and God would bless her!16 He advised Mada to lie, and even composed a story for her:

I think it’s best to say that you met someone passing by and he gave you a false name, and he told you he wants to marry you. Later he left and didn't call and you got pregnant. It’s best to say that you don’t know him, because they won’t bot17her you then and it would be better for the child later.

This was the priest who was virtually the spiritual director of the Medjugorje seers! Mada complied with his wishes initially, but later, feeling abandoned, revealed the whole story to Msgr. Zanic. As he did in the case of Father Vego, Father Laurentin resorted to a cover-up. He evidently felt that the credibility of the seers could be endangered if the immorality of their spiritual director became known, and fabricated a story that a Franciscan named Pehar, who had left the order and gone to live in the U.S.A., was the father of the child. His evident presumption was that no one would be able to find Pehar, but he was mistaken. The former priest, now laicised and married, was located and made it clear that by no possible stretch of the imagination could he have been the father of Mada’s child. He had no hesitation in stating categorically that Laurentin was lying.18


15 The full details of this scandalous event can be found in the book by E. Michael Jones, Medjugorje: The Untold Story (Fidelity press, 206 Marquette Avenue, South Bend, IN 46617, USA).
16 Ibid., p. 85.
17 Ibid.[/quote]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=9859&view=findpost&p=166147"]Old phatmass post from popestpiusx[/url]. Haven't see him here in a while.

[Maggyie]

Incidentally the Franciscan Fr. Ivica Vego referenced above encountered his difficulties when running a souvenir shop for the pilgrims in Medjugorje. He was already suspended by his Bishop. There was a nun who worked in the shop with him and in spite of all that pious atmosphere one thing led to another. Obviously they couldn't exactly stick around in the area (scandal like you wouldn't believe!) and I believe they are married now, living in Italy with 5 children. I read somewhere that the Pope had him expelled from the Franciscan order. At the time the "Apparition" told the "seers" several times that Fr. Vego was innocent, and then later that it was all the bishop's fault and that Fr. Vago should "remain courageous."

Edited September 2, 2008 by Maggie

[Deb]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1645155' date='Sep 2 2008, 01:54 AM']Incidentally the Franciscan Fr. Ivica Vego referenced above encountered his difficulties when running a souvenir shop for the pilgrims in Medjugorje. He was already suspended by his Bishop. There was a nun who worked in the shop with him and in spite of all that pious atmosphere one thing led to another. Obviously they couldn't exactly stick around in the area (scandal like you wouldn't believe!) and I believe they are married now, living in Italy with 5 children. I read somewhere that the Pope had him expelled from the Franciscan order. At the time the "Apparition" told the "seers" several times that Fr. Vego was innocent, and then later that it was all the bishop's fault and that Fr. Vago should "remain courageous."[/quote]


Actually that is incorrect. Fr. Vego encountered his difficulties and was removed in 1982, light years before there was ever any souvenir shop. It just makes a better story. There are those, priests and laity who are sinners and Satan will use whomever he can to keep people from God. He uses them to continually perpetuate little things that have no bearing on the Blessed Mother's messages. Disunity is what he does best. Look at the Catholic Church history. Nothing changes.

My friend in Medjugorje told me that Fr. Vlasic was way off track, had separated from the Franciscan order and is free lance, on his own little journey. He is not a part of anything in Medjugorje.

[Deb]

If anyone would like to read some intelligient information answering questions such as disobedience against the bishop, have the visions gone on too long, false ecumenical teachings etc., this site is very clear and upfront about all the questions and with a constant explanation as to these things in relation to the Catholic Church. All of the questions are answered by Dr. Mark Miravalle. [url="http://medjugorje.wordpress.com/?s=heaven"]http://medjugorje.wordpress.com/?s=heaven[/url]

Dr. Miravelle also touches on Medjugorje in several articles on his web site.

[url="http://www.markmiravalle.com/articles_mark_miravalle/"]http://www.markmiravalle.com/articles_mark_miravalle/[/url]

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1644954' date='Sep 1 2008, 09:33 PM']Oh, man. Ya, that sends a tremor through the force.[/quote]

As if millions of voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[Guest KevinSymonds]

It is not true to state that Fr. Vlasic has nothing to do with Medjugorje. He was one of its most influential leaders, perhaps the most.

Rome itself has stated that a part of the discernment of alleged private revelations is to investigate the actions of the associates of the alleged 'visionaries.' Fr. Vlasic walking right up to the Pope himself and telling him that he (Vlasic) [i]guides[/i] the "visionaries" is proof enough that he is a close associate.

The appropriate act for any Catholic in this regard is to go to the Bishop of Mostar-Duvno and ask him what the situation is. Here is his own outline of the Fr. Vlasic affair through the Diocesan Chancellor:


[url="http://www.cbismo.com/index.php?mod=vijest&vijest=227"]http://www.cbismo.com/index.php?mod=vijest&vijest=227[/url]


Fra Tomislav Vlašić “within the context of the Medjugorje phenomenon”
Chancellor, 2008-08-31
Due to the fact that the case of Rev. Father Tomislav Vlašić, OFM, according to the letter of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, n.144/1985-27164, dated 30 May 2008, and published in the Bishop’s circular letter prot. 930/2008 on 8 July 2008, mentions “within the context of the Medjugorje phenomenon”, we wish to inform the priests, religious men and women as well as the faithful of the Dioceses of Mostar-Duvno and Trebinje-Mrkan on the involvement of Fr. Vlašić in the case of Medjugorje, keeping in mind all that was earlier published in the book „Ogledalo Pravde“[1] – Mirror of Justice.
Tomislav Vlašić was born in Sovići, in the parish of Gorica (Herzegovina) on 16 January 1942. He was ordained a priest on 26 July 1969, as a member of the Franciscan OFM Province of Herzegovina. Before his arrival in Medjugorje, Fr. Tomislav was the associate pastor in the parish of Čapljina. Even at that time he was known as a “charismatic” who gathered priests, religious sisters and the laity together for dubious charismatic spiritual renewals.
May 1981. In May of 1981, “Fr. Tomislav Vlašić went to Rome for an international Congress of representatives of the Charismatic movement. During the Congress he asked some of the participants to pray together with him for the healing of the Church in Yugoslavia. The religious sister Briege McKenna, who joined him in prayer had a vision: she saw Fr. Vlašić sitting with a multitude of people around him and from the place where he was sitting there came forth rivers of water. Another religious priest present, Emile Tardiff O.P., prophesied: ‘Do not be afraid, I will send you my Mother’. A few weeks later, the Madonna started appearing in Medjugorje”.[2]
- This would imply that one should seek the origins and foundation of the Medjugorje phenomenon within the context of the transferring of exponents of the Charismatic movement!
September 1981. Fr. Vlašić left Čapljina for Medjugorje without the Bishops’ prior knowledge nor permission in September of 1981, just two months after the beginning of the so-called “apparitions” which can be seen from the entries in the baptismal register. He began to compile the “Parish Chronicle” on the so-called “apparitions” on 11 August 1981, yet the actual writing of the Chronicle “did not begin before the end of October 1981”.[3] On 19 July 1982, the OFM Provincial recommended that Fr. Vlašić be assigned as the “spiritual assistant in Medjugorje”. Bishop Žanić, whilst not knowing the moral situation of Fr. Vlašić, issued a decree on 27 July of the same year transferring him to Medjugorje. Fr. Vlašić followed the “seers” from the very beginning and when he was officially assigned as associate pastor in Medjugorje, he became their “spiritual leader”.
December 1983 – The Oath. Bishop Žanić visited Medjugorje on 16 October 1983 and inquired about the Diary of the “seer” Vicka Ivanković and on the Parish Chronicle so that he could better judge the phenomenon. Fr. Tomislav handed over the Chronicle yet he denied the existence of the “seer’s” Diary, saying he could swear an oath on the cross. He then came to the Diocesan Chancery Office in Mostar on 14 December 1983 and before the Bishop gave an oath on the cross that he had never held Vicka’s diary in his hands nor that he had any knowledge that such a diary existed. However, the Diary did exist as was proven from Fr. Tomislav’s own Parish Chronicle and from his letter to the Bishop of 21 December 1983.
In a conversation held in 1983, Fr. Vlašić informed the Swiss theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar that “The children have decided to enter the convent, but they are awaiting the right moment which only they know”.[4] Yet the only one to enter the convent was Ivan Dragićević, who after not even two full years in the minor seminaries of Visoko and Dubrovnik decided to leave.
In a letter dated 13 April 1984, Fr. Vlašić presented himself to the Holy Father as the one “who through Divine providence leads the seers of Medjugorje”. He informed the Pope that the “Madonna continues to convey her biography to the seers” and informed the Holy Father that “I am in Rome from 29 April till 10 May for an international meeting. I know that you are very busy, but if you could receive me for a few minutes I would be able to explain the strong points of the apparitions”.
- It remains unknown if the Pope received him in a private audience.
A second letter, six pages long, sent to the Pope two weeks later, contained “messages”: “The time is close at hand. We are approaching the end”.
On 22 August 1984, Fr. Vlašić wrote to Bishop Žanić informing him that the Madonna’s 2000th birthday was to be held that same year on 5 August! No important ecclesiastic person took this news seriously and neither did Bishop Žanić nor the Holy See. However, during 1984, on 4 and 5 August, a large group of people gathered in Medjugorje to “celebrate” the Madonna’s “birthday”.
- The “Mladifest” (Youth festival) that is usually held at the beginning of August, is probably attached to this Medjugorje invention of Rev. Fr. Tomislav Vlašić.
On 30 October 1984, Bishop Žanić published his Position in which he mentioned some of the above-mentioned facts on Fr. Tomislav Vlašić, referring to him as a “mystifier and charismatic magician”.
In 1984, Fr. Tomislav had to leave Medjugorje and was assigned to the parish of Vitina as associate pastor.
Archbishop Frane Franić in his interview given to Fr. Slavko Barbarić, on 18 December 1984, said that he had a “deep impression” of Fr. Tomislav Vlašić and that “he is on the path of serious sanctity evident in his sense of detachment and inner strength”.[5]
On 5 January 1985, Fr. Tomislav Vlašić wrote to one of his “dearest brothers” in the Vatican (Msgr. Hnilica?) asking for protection from the bishop: “It would be necessary to get all the others involved (intellectuals, theologians, bishops, cardinals...). We have to admit that Satan can also work through the structures of the Church.”
Unfortunately the same Fr. Vlašić – according to the authentic documentation from his association – conjured evil spirits up in Medjugorje, for which his actions are under pain of mystified motivations.
In 1987 he left Vitina for Parma, Italy, together with the German citizen Agnes Heupel (like “Claire and Francis”, as literally written by T. Vlašić[6]), where he established the male and female association called “Kraljice mira, potpuno smo tvoji. Po Mariji k Isusu” (Queen of Peace, totally yours. Through Mary to Jesus). From that time onward, the name of Fr. Tomislav Vlašić is no longer on the list of the members of the Franciscan Province of Herzegovina. However, his name is attached to that of Marija Pavlović who in February 1988 went to join Vlašić’s association. This is where Fr. Tomislav got his “charismatic” hands involved, for in his brochure “Jedan poziv” (A single call) he wrote: “Amongst other things I asked the Madonna a question through Marija Pavlović. Marija then gave me the Madonna’s answer on 8 March 1987: ‘This is God’s plan’”[7]. And at the end of this brochure Marija writes: “As you can see, the Madonna has given the community its programme: ‘Kraljice mira, potpuno smo tvoji. Po Mariji k Isusu’ and is guiding this community through Fr. Tomislav and Agnes, while sending messages through her to the community”.[8] Yet on 11 July 1988, Marija radically and in written form denied the declaration of Fr. Tomislav and even her own “testimony”: “before God, before the Madonna and the Church of Jesus Christ. Everything that can be understood as a confirmation or approval of this Work of Fr. Tomislav and Agnes Heupel, on the part of the Madonna through me, absolutely does not correspond to the truth and furthermore the idea that I had a spontaneous desire to write down this testimony is also not true”.
- We know that no lies can correspond to the truth, yet one can see from this how the notorious lies of Medjugorje have also been attributed to the Madonna, which Bishop Žanić painstakingly struggled against in order to defend the honour and dignity of the Blessed Virgin Mary!
Through his letter dated 5 December 1997, the local Ordinary, Msgr. Ratko Perić, on the basis of can. 975 of the Code of Canon Law, declared that Fr. Tomislav Vlašić has no faculties to hear confessions in the territory of the Dioceses of Mostar-Duvno and Trebinje-Mrkan.

Don Ante Luburić, Chancellor


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] Ogledalo Pravde, Biskupski Ordinarijat u Mostaru o navodnim ukazanjima i porukama u Međugorju (priprema i slog: D. Kutleša), Mostar 2001.
[2] L. Rooney - R. Faricy, Maria regina della pace, Milano, 1984, p. 34. See also P. Žanić, Posizione attuale (non ufficiale) della Curia Vescovile di Mostar nei confronti degli eventi di Medjugorje, Mostar, 30. X.1984, pp. 6-7.
[3] N. Bulat, Istina će vas osloboditi. Nepouzdanost izvora i nedoličnost poruka. Studija o nekim međugorskim pitanjima (1986), Mostar 2006, p. 25.
[4] M. Botta - L. Frigerio, Le apparizioni di Medjugorje, Pessano 1984, p. 129.
[5] R. Laurentin, La fine delle apparizioni è prossima?, Marzo 1985., p. 20.
[6] T. Vlašić, Una chiamata nell'anno mariano, Milano 1988, p. 5.
[7] Idem, p. 6.
[8] Idem, p. 16.

[Guest KevinSymonds]

Double post, my bad.

Edited September 2, 2008 by KevinSymonds

[Deb]

Again, he has not been involved in Medjugorje for a very long time and the letter that is supposedly from the visionary was not from her and she very publically stated that in a news format when it occured.
He is being used by Satan and his behavior is not a marker to be used in making decisions about Medjugorje. Now, go read Dr. Miravalle.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Deb' post='1645195' date='Sep 2 2008, 07:22 AM']Actually that is incorrect. Fr. Vego encountered his difficulties and was removed in 1982, light years before there was ever any souvenir shop. It just makes a better story.[/quote]

I am pretty sure it is not incorrect. I got the story about Fr. Vego and his souvenir shop from Medjugorje.org, from an article published in the Fall 1999 issue of Medjugorje Magazine. It is actually in the form of a letter written by Fr. Svetozar Kraljevic, O.F.M. to a Medjugorje critic, defending the pastoral work being done there. I imagine he would have the accurate story.

[url="http://www.medjugorje.org/svetletter.htm"]http://www.medjugorje.org/svetletter.htm[/url]

The relevant portion:

[quote]2. Pregnant nuns. It is true that "a" nun got pregnant by a priest. The priest was Fr. Ivica Vego. The entire time he was in Medjugorje, he was not in pastoral work in the parish because of a suspension from the Bishop. He never heard confessions or celebrated Mass publicly. He rarely wore his habit.[b] He was in charge of the souvenir shop where this sister worked. Human weakness overwhelmed both of them. We know that. Yes, that did happen in Medjugorje.[/b]

A Cardinal of the Church (I can't mention his name), said the following to one of our Croatian Bishops: "There will be a great effort in the world to discredit the Church in Ireland and the Church in Croatia." The system is well known. It is to find a priest who has sinned and to speak about him and all of his weaknesses. It is to go public on TV and not to let it be forgotten. In doing this, the plan is to defeat the Church. It is easy and simple and it works.

In the tradition of the Church, sin remains in the confessional, the repentant sinner receives forgiveness and life goes on; but in the world today, sin is encouraged and the sinner is crucified; his sin never to be forgiven or forgotten. The story about a former priest, Ivica Vego and a former nun, who now live in Italy raising their five children in seclusion, is sad, to say the least.[/quote]

There is SO much misinformation out there about Medjugorje, some spread by hostile traditionalists and some spread by enthusiasts. But there are certainly a lot of problems with the Franciscans there. Mary apparently told the "seers" that Fr. Vego was innocent of all the charges against him. I guess Mary was wrong?

Edited September 2, 2008 by Maggie

[Deb]

There were a lot of problems with the Bishop and the Franciscans which had been occurring off and on for years prior to Medjugorje. Fr. Vega was actually defrocked in January of 1982 and it had nothing to do with getting a nun pregnant. It had everything to do with the problems that had been going on between the Bishop and the Franciscans since 1968. If while he was no longer a Franciscan or a priest, he got a nun pregnant, it has no bearing on Medjugorje in any way.
An objective statement about what the Blessed Mother may have or may not have said is below. To imply that the Blessed Mother would have approved of a priest getting a nun pregnant is really offensive.

At the beginning, Bishop Zanic had also believed in the apparitions. He had stated publicly, "The children are not lying". In his statement in 1984 he admits that he, for his part, had thought, "If the scandalous "Herzegovina-Case" .... could not have been solved with human means then maybe God wanted to send us Our Lady to bring the disobedient back to obey and love the Church". But what then brought about this change of mind in him? Here the case of the two Franciscans Ivica Vego and Ivan Prusina plays an important role. Both chaplains were suspended by Bishop Zanic because of disobedience and, as a result of his pressure, they were expelled from the Order. In this matter, the Gospa supposedly said that the bishop had acted too hastily, that both were innocent. From there on, it seems, the bishop turned into a radical opponent of Medjugorje. In the statement of 1984, he writes, "The attacks of Our Lady against the bishop and the defence of the ex-Franciscans of Mostar were the strongest proofs against the authenticity of the apparitions". Thus, in short, his train of thought is: A mother of God, who criticizes a bishop, cannot be the Mother of God! To this, I want to make two comments. From the history of the Church, we know enough examples when prophets criticized high and the highest officials of the Church. For example, what the saintly prophetic women, Birgitta of Sweden and Catherine of Siena, told Pope Gregory XI. on behalf of God in order to induce him to leave Avignon and return to Rome, by far surpasses any criticism and admonition that Bishop Zanic got to hear. But one should note that these messages were handled very discretely, as personal messages by the Franciscans and the visionaries and were never published. Bishop Zanic did this himself. Probably because he thought that this was the strongest proof against the authenticity of the apparitions. Everyone can judge for himself how effective this argument is. The second comment: In the case of the two Franciscans Vega and Prusina, Rome's judgement is quite interesting: They were treated unjustly and were expelled without the necessary procedure. Doesn't this almost sound like what the Gospa supposedly had said, that the bishop had acted too hurriedly?

Oh, that also is from Medjugorje.org

[kafka]

I am not going to debate on this subject. But I will say this. Medjugorje is a contradiction. A stumbling block. And it will be exonerated by God. And soon. This place has changed so many poeples lives, and it will continue to help people for a time and when Father Petar Ljubicic anounces to the world the 1st & 2nd of the ten secrets those who are willing to heed his advice will be comforted and grateful.

Edited September 2, 2008 by kafka

[Ziggamafu]

There are problems with the Medjugorge apparitions for sure...but the good things - conversions, specifically - would seem to me to far outweigh the suspicious aspects...Satan cannot be divided against himself, after all. Nevertheless, just because the phenomena is not diabolical in origin does not necessarily mean it is of divine origins (God can use errors - even false religions - in his own subtle ways to bring about conversions to the one true religion).

In any case, I'm under the impression that the secrets are supposed to come to pass within the visionaries' lifetimes, beginning as soon as the final secret is shared with the final visionary. So, if true, it would seem that peculiar things should start happening within the next decade or so...

Edited September 2, 2008 by Ziggamafu

[Guest KevinSymonds]

I read Dr. Miravalle's article when it came out several months ago.

Dr. Miravalle was a college professor of mine on both the undergraduate and graduate levels.

He publicly misrepresented an important fact of Medjugorje and misled people (I will not debate his intention as that is before him and God).

By such an action, Dr. Miravalle proved that he is not a reliable source of information on Medjugorje.

That said, I wish to address a point that has been made.

It has been stated that Vicka denied ever having written a Diary. It is true that she denied having a Diary with recorded statements of her alleged vision.

It is also true that Fr. Rene Laurentin and Fr. Tomislav Vlasic have publicly written about the existence of the Diary. The Bishop himself has read it.

It has also been stated by Marija Pavlovic-Lunetti that she revokes an earlier statement she made concerning an alleged message from heaven that backed up Fr. Vlasic's community.

Both cases are extremely revealing, well documented and cannot be denied.

If anyone wants to find out what is happening, how about E-mailing Bishop Peric? He does have E-mail and writes people back.

Peace!
-Kevin Symonds