Why I Am Not A Catholic

[OraProMe]

I thought I'd clear up a few questions I've been asked since I joined this site. This is easier than replying to a bunch of pm's that go back months.

My mother is a lapsed Anglican and my father is a lapsed Catholic. I was baptised a Catholic only because my grandparents insisted, and that was mostly out of sentiment. When I was 10 or 11 my family moved up to the country and my mother, wanting to give me a good education, enrolled me in the Catholic school system because the state schools in rural Australia are deplorable. The entire class was preparing to receive Holy Communion and, as I was listed as Catholic and my mother consented, I started receiving preparation as well. This was my first encounter with Catholicism. At first I was totally lost. I remember in my first week we were out during Physical Education and a funeral procession went by, all the other kids stopped and bowed their heads while our teacher recited a Hail Mary.

Two years later, when I was 13, my family got the internet and through that I found the Society of St. Pius X. They had a chapel not far from my house and it was served by priests who ran the SSPX seminary which was only a three hour drive from where I lived. I never developed into a full "traditonalist" I guess, I attended the Novus Ordo frequently during the week and my grandpa would drive me up to the SSPX parish on Sunday. I really didn't care about ecclesial politics, only the Mass. By the time I was 14 I started looking into the priesthood. I was attending Mass four or five times a week, praying the rosary each night, confession on Saturday, starting my day with a morning offering and saying grace before meals.

It was also around this age that I came to the realization of my sexuality, there were signs going way back (I had platonic crushes on various boys during primary school) but as I entered puberty my homosexuality became cemented. One moment that really sticks out in my mind is waiting till after Mass and then going to the Lady Chapel, lighting a candle, and making a "pact" with Mary. I basically told her I knew I was going to fall away from the Faith and asked her to make sure that I never wandered too far. I started crying and remembering how dirty I felt. I recited the confiteor and struck my chest very hard three times at the "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa". This went on for around 20 minutes until the priest came back to prepare for the next Mass.

When I was 15 and 16 I was very ambivalent about my feelings towards God and my sexuality. I struggled a lot. I remember going to confession and telling the priest I was gay, I could always feel the atmosphere change. You can almost hear Father's mind ticking over and whatever advice he gives is delivered very awkwardly and not practical at all. I used to have a prayer card to St. Michael in my wallet and I'd look at it whenever I felt tempted. I tried to surround myself with Catholic friends but they too were rapidly falling away from the Faith we'd learnt in primary school. I started to abstain from receiving communion because I felt unworthy. I remember that when I would go to communion my knees would slump against the altar rail and how exposed I'd feel, kneeling there in front of the priest who'd heard my confession and knew I was gay. I always feared that he'd tell me to stand up and not receive Communion. My prayers became more and more monotonous, I started to get bored during Mass which had never happened before and more than once during adoration I thought "why am I kneeling in front of a piece of bread?" It ended with me tearing up all the books the SSPX priests had sent me, ripping my rosary beads apart and throwing three plastic bags full of religious paraphernalia in the trash. Honestly, this was catharsis and it felt very liberating.

I began to the process of trying to disprove the intellectual basis of Catholicism. I know that a few people here have accused me of being proud and over emotional about this issue, but I did look into the Church's teachings on homosexuality and was ready to submit myself if I thought She was correct. My homosexuality became the catalyst that caused me to question all the teachings of the Church. My past with the SSPX lead me to see contradictions in the Church's teachings on Religious Freedom and Vatican II, things I wont get into here because I don't want this to turn into a debate. I came out to a few friends, then a lot, then my family. I got my first boyfriend and spent the entire year without the Church. I didn't think about Catholicism, pray or go to Mass. Since then there have been minor resurfacings of my past Catholicism but any affinity I have with the Church is now largely aesthetic. I'm 18 now, have had three relationships and honestly don't think I could go back to believing in any organized religion.

[tinytherese]

Thanks for explaining. That's tough. I can only imagine how difficult the sexuality issue has been on you, but I can identify with the confusion about Vatican II. It's a tricky council that people are still trying to sort out and there was a lot of confusion at the time when those new changes started happening. I used to be a rad trad, but I didn't know any better.


Pax Christi!

[Nihil Obstat]

So what do you think now about your bargain/plea with Mary?

Personally I think she's going to keep her end, whether you like it or not.

[zunshynn]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='31 October 2009 - 12:10 AM' timestamp='1256973036' post='1994334']
So what do you think now about your bargain/plea with Mary?

Personally I think she's going to keep her end, whether you like it or not.
[/quote]

[quote]Action failed: You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day [/quote] (Although I accidentally gave you a plus for one of your other posts that I didn't mean to today so it all evens out.)

Ora... I'm in no place to say what I think your motivations are, or how much your emotions or pride are influencing your decisions, or yada yada yada, really anything at all.

But I will say that I am praying for you... and I care about you. And personally... yeah, I agree with Nihil... Our Lady is not done with you yet. I don't know

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='31 October 2009 - 02:10 AM' timestamp='1256973036' post='1994334']
So what do you think now about your bargain/plea with Mary?

Personally I think she's going to keep her end, whether you like it or not.
[/quote]

Well if she is actually in heaven and praying for me then I certainly hope so. Or she hasn't existed for 2000 years and I was just speaking to a piece of painted clay.

We'll find out.

[cappie]

Interesting life story. I can relate to much of what you say believe it or not.
I have traveled a journey that only myself and God know about (I think) but when it seems like God has abandoned me or neglected my needs or ignored my prayer requests, that's when I most need to put our eyes back on Jesus and take a good look at who God really is and what his personality is really like.

I believe in my heart God is love, and it's impossible for love to stop loving, whether I want it to stop or not because my relationship with God it's never as bad as it seems. No troubles can come between me and the Lord. God's love won't fail to intervene and protect me and guide me to the best solutions.

Even while it seems to take "too long", he is helping us.

We certainly can fail to receive his help, we can make bad decisions that lead us into more trouble, and we can let others control our moods if we depend on them for our joy, but God's love never stops ministering to us. The only thing that's impossible for love to do is to stop loving us. The only way for evil to defeat this love is for us to believe – whole-heartedly – that such undying love isn't really what we want.

Yet, even before we reclaim our faith by choosing to trust God, God's love is covering us, surrounding us, seeking a way into our hearts so it can fill us, always making itself available. Our trust in this love overwhelms our negative emotions and produces lasting joy.

As to the "Church thing" I find this quote from Ephesians apposite, Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he (Jesus) who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

A good church will make the difference in your level of faith for meeting the problems that life brings.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='31 October 2009 - 07:06 PM' timestamp='1256976370' post='1994338']
Well if she is actually in heaven and praying for me then I certainly hope so. Or she hasn't existed for 2000 years and I was just speaking to a piece of painted clay.

We'll find out.
[/quote]

I think in your heart you know the answer to that question, but perhaps right now it's too painful to think about?

I am a convert who was brought to the faith by Our Lady over many years, and she used the Rosary to catch me in the first place - I fell in love with praying the Rosary long before I ever thought about any kind of organized religion at all!

It would be so good if there were simple answers to all of life's pains and sufferings, but there just aren't. What Cappie said about God's love is simply what it is all about in the end; He can't stop loving us, because He is love.

Your Cross is SSA. This is a really tough one because it hits at the very heart of your self identity as a person. But you know what? One day, your sexuality won't be an issue, just as it won't be for anyone else either. We are all going to die, and we will then be like the angels, without these physical concerns. What we have to ask ourselves is whether the life we are living now is preparing us for eternal life or not.

There are other Crosses that people have, that to them seem just as hard, or harder than the one you are carrying. The rich young man wanted eternal life so much, but he just couldn't let go of his wealth and so he was unable to take up the very personal invitation from Jesus to follow Him. So you aren't alone in finding it difficult to go through the narrow gate.

As for the conflicts and difficulties within the Church - this has been going on since the beginning, with the apostles even being divided on issues like circumcision and food! The Church is never going to be perfect, and expecting this only causes great heartache and disappointment. But Jesus did establish the Church and he said that even the gates of hell would not prevail against it. So our part is to love and support the Church as His mystical body, and this means obedience to her teachings for love of Him.

We must never, ever lose sight of the goal, the reward, the whole reason for our being in the first place, the only thing that gives any meaning to this life at all - eternity in heaven with Jesus. St Paul often talks about "the race" or "the good fight" and he tells us that nothing we have to endure here can compare with the glory that awaits us with Jesus.

I have no answers or solutions for you (not that you asked me for any) except to say that the Blessed Virgin is definitely taking care of you, and that God will do anything and everything He can for the good of your eternal soul. He loves you beyond your wildest imagining, and even proved it through the life, passion, death and resurrection of His Son, a gift that none of us can ever fully comprehend or appreciate adequately.

I will add though, that celibacy is possible (speaking as a celibate myself), and that your SSA need not separate you from the Church, but could be a great gift of self-denial that you offer to God, just as priests and religious offer their consecrated celibacy as a gift to Him. You are in my prayers and I will pray a Rosary for you to thank Our Blessed Mother for watching over you.

[little_miss_late]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='31 October 2009 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1256965216' post='1994277']
By the time I was 14 I started looking into the priesthood. I was attending Mass four or five times a week, praying the rosary each night, confession on Saturday, starting my day with a morning offering and saying grace before meals.

It was also around this age that I came to the realization of my sexuality, there were signs going way back (I had platonic crushes on various boys during primary school) but as I entered puberty my homosexuality became cemented. One moment that really sticks out in my mind is waiting till after Mass and then going to the Lady Chapel, lighting a candle, and making a "pact" with Mary. I basically told her I knew I was going to fall away from the Faith and asked her to make sure that I never wandered too far. I started crying and remembering how dirty I felt. I recited the confiteor and struck my chest very hard three times at the "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa". This went on for around 20 minutes until the priest came back to prepare for the next Mass.

When I was 15 and 16 I was very ambivalent about my feelings towards God and my sexuality. I struggled a lot. I remember going to confession and telling the priest I was gay, I could always feel the atmosphere change. You can almost hear Father's mind ticking over and whatever advice he gives is delivered very awkwardly and not practical at all. I used to have a prayer card to St. Michael in my wallet and I'd look at it whenever I felt tempted. I tried to surround myself with Catholic friends but they too were rapidly falling away from the Faith we'd learnt in primary school. I started to abstain from receiving communion because I felt unworthy. I remember that when I would go to communion my knees would slump against the altar rail and how exposed I'd feel, kneeling there in front of the priest who'd heard my confession and knew I was gay. I always feared that he'd tell me to stand up and not receive Communion.
[/quote]

I apologize in advance if this is intrusive or wrong-- but do you think that maybe part of your increased religious activity at 14 was a way of "bargaining"-- like maybe you thought if you did all those things, you wouldn't be attracted to boys anymore? And that possibly your subsequent anger and fear were in part due to a sense that your earlier attempt to change yourself didn't "work" the way you wanted it to?

I am sorry that happened to you in confession. The priest shouldn't have allowed his own discomfort to make you uncomfortable. I am sorry too that you were surrounded by friends who were not able to support you in your faith. I can relate, although in a different way, to feeling "exposed" in front of your friends and in front of the church. It is a very disconcerting experience especially at an age when you should be supported and allowed to gently "grow away" and into yourself. When instead of being allowed to gently grow, you are made to feel cut off entirely, it can throw you into a dark place.

I think it is easy for people to make a big deal out of sexual sin or sexual behavior while ignoring all kinds of other damage and sin. Or maybe it is easy for each of us to think that *our* sin is the sin that everyone focuses on. All of my favorite people are sinners.

[Seven77]

Ora, I sympathize with you because I too carry a cross-- a physical one. I will not waste words here because I believe I have used them in your previous posts. If you wish to know what it is to deal with being on a ventilator and requiring the use of a wheelchair... please send me a message anytime. In the meantime, I will be doing for you what your screen name suggests I ought to do--- I will pray for you.

However here are some words are like you to ponder-- but do not be afraid to to face the reality of them:

"what if the devil is real"

Ora-- there is no need for you to reply to this particular post.

God bless you.

[holly.o]

[OraProMe]

[quote name='little_miss_late' date='31 October 2009 - 11:26 AM' timestamp='1257006381' post='1994405']
I apologize in advance if this is intrusive or wrong-- but do you think that maybe part of your increased religious activity at 14 was a way of "bargaining"-- like maybe you thought if you did all those things, you wouldn't be attracted to boys anymore? And that possibly your subsequent anger and fear were in part due to a sense that your earlier attempt to change yourself didn't "work" the way you wanted it to?

[/quote]

There's not that many things I find intrusive so it's cool .
But no, I just had a strong conviction and love for the Catholic faith.

[Era Might]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='31 October 2009 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1256965216' post='1994277']I'm 18 now, have had three relationships and honestly don't think I could go back to believing in any organized religion.
[/quote]
The first question you must ask yourself, because it is the essential question that every man must ask himself, is whether or not Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Word of God. Everything else begins or ends with that question.

If you answer yes, that Jesus Christ is indeed the Incarnate Word of God, then there are more questions to ask. But the essential thing I would suggest you think about is how Our Lord refers to his becoming flesh as a "Visitation." He speaks of those who do "not know the time of your visitation" (Luke 19:44).

What a sad thing it is to live (and still worse to die) having missed Our Lord's visit. And I mean sadness in the deepest sense, in the sense of the rich young man in the Gospel whose "countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions" (Mark 10:22). It is the eternal sadness of "the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth" (Matthew 8:12).

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Era Might' date='31 October 2009 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1257043787' post='1994655']
The first question you must ask yourself, because it is the essential question that every man must ask himself, is whether or not Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Word of God. Everything else begins or ends with that question.

If you answer yes, that Jesus Christ is indeed the Incarnate Word of God, then there are more questions to ask. But the essential thing I would suggest you think about is how Our Lord refers to his becoming flesh as a "Visitation." He speaks of those who do "not know the time of your visitation" (Luke 19:44).

What a sad thing it is to live (and still worse to die) having missed Our Lord's visit. And I mean sadness in the deepest sense, in the sense of the rich young man in the Gospel whose "countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions" (Mark 10:22). It is the eternal sadness of "the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth" (Matthew 8:12).
[/quote]

Sorry dude but I wrote this to explain myself, not try to be converted. I've thought over everything you've mentioned

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='31 October 2009 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1257048235' post='1994679']
Sorry dude but I wrote this to explain myself, not try to be converted.
[/quote]

Catholics always try to convert everyone (or at least they should).

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='31 October 2009 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1257048357' post='1994681']
Catholics always try to convert everyone (or at least they should).
[/quote]

"Preach always, use words when necessary"

[missionseeker]

I was totally gonna say that!

[KnightofChrist]

But words are most always necessary.

[havok579257]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='01 November 2009 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1257049627' post='1994688']
"Preach always, use words when necessary"
[/quote]


thats what these people were doing.

[OraProMe]

Anyway...

[ChildoftheCreator]

Cool story. I always like to read other people's faith stories even if they are negative. It helps me to see where they are coming from. And of course it's interesting.

Part of it sounds like me in that I discovered many aspects of the Catholic faith after my family got a better internet system that I could use for more than homework. My sexuality probably wouldn't be the thing to drive me away from the faith, but I can understand that it is really hard. There's other things that give me more stress, like for example VII or the development of the role of the pope, but to each his own, it's your life story not mine . I do hope that Mary brings you home. Just keep an open mind and always be ready to accept what you believe is the truth no matter how hard it is.