Papal Oath Not To Introduce New Ideas To The Rcc

[MagiDragon]

if i didn't think that bruce would simply ignore the doc dumps i'd say that he's totally outgunned. as it is though, he'll ignore everything that was said that didn't support his position.

i really don't think it's worth wasting time proving him wrong for his sake. it may be worth the time for everyone else who reads this though.

[Pope Saint Pius V]

First of all, I think before we deal with Bruce's question we need to deal with one of Bruce's larger problems, which is not being Catholic. We're putting the cart before the horse by trying to prove the Dogma of the Assumption. First we must prove papal primacy and then we must prove papal infallibility and then we can show Bruce the error of his thought. However, to do otherwise will solve nothing, will prove nothing. Also, Jason, do you read the posts that are written? He didn't want new sources he wanted sources from before the year 1000.

[willguy]

[quote]You just have to decide, to go with FACT, or go with TRADITION, and that is where we part company.[/quote]

You show me one fact that Mary wasn't assumed into heaven.

and a correction to one of the docs:
[quote]At no time in history has Christendom venerated a grave or tomb of the Blessed Virgin. [/quote] That's not quite true. Actually, I think both Jerusalem and Constantinople claim to have the location of Mary's death. However, neither claims to have any relics. There have never been relics of Mary. One would think that if Christians were so intent on saving relics of the apostles and other martyrs, that they most certainly would have saved the relics of Mary if it was possible.

[M.SIGGA]

Bruce, what about all the other ancient Christian Apostolic Churches that have also ALWAYS believed in the Assumption, like the Oriental Orthodox Churches of Ethiopia and Etria and Armenia and Malankara, which never had any ties to the Bishop of Rome or the 5 ancient Patriarchies (Rome, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Constantinople) or their Councils and proclaimations. And if Mary did die, you can probably immagine how her relics would have been venerated.

I hate doing the shout-out thing, but that post was great Cmom.

[NewReformation]

[quote name='Jason' date='Apr 8 2004, 08:42 AM'] You don't know your Bible do you. People in the Old Testament were assumed into heaven

Gn 5:24 (Hb11:5)- Enoch taken to heaven without dying

2 Kg 2:11 -Elijah assumend into heaven in fiery chariot

Hmmm....

It happened in the Old Testament? Wow did you know that? So God can do whatever He wants.

Since you looked over the first Scripture I'll give you a little 1 Cor 11:2-"hold fast to traditions I handed on to you."

peace [/quote]
The Greek word translated into 'traditions' is not the same as the way we use it in English. It has to do with doctrinal fact. Not with a certain way of doing things.

[Hananiah]

[quote name='NewReformation' date='Apr 16 2004, 12:44 PM'] The Greek word translated into 'traditions' is not the same as the way we use it in English. It has to do with doctrinal fact. Not with a certain way of doing things. [/quote]
And when the Catholic Church speaks of her Sacred Traditions she is speaking of doctrinal fact.