Row Over Italy's Crucifixes In Classrooms

[Varg]

That world would be unimaginably horrible.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='05 November 2009 - 04:38 PM' timestamp='1257457136' post='1996735']
I shall revise my above statement.

In the most perfect world that can be achieved given the fall of Adam, everyone would freely choose to be Catholic and abide by everything that the Catholic Church teaches.
[/quote]

Even if the fall had never occurred, man would still practice religion, since God revealed Himself to Adam before the fall.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='05 November 2009 - 03:40 PM' timestamp='1257457251' post='1996738']
Even if the fall had never occurred, man would still practice religion, since God revealed Himself to Adam before the fall.
[/quote]
Of course, but there would be no "Catholicism" because everybody would freely worship the same God and hold the same set of perfect beliefs.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Varg' date='05 November 2009 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1257456638' post='1996727']
You view of the world, Mr. Rexi, is frankly hilarious. Please, continue.
[/quote]

That isn't surprising since, if I'm not mistaken, you think all the teachings of the Church are hilarious too.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Varg' date='05 November 2009 - 03:40 PM' timestamp='1257457241' post='1996737']
That world would be unimaginably horrible.
[/quote]
Yea, everyone living in perfect, unspoiled happiness is just awful. I avoid it at all costs.

[Varg]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='05 November 2009 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1257457354' post='1996741']
Yea, everyone living in perfect, unspoiled happiness is just awful. I avoid it at all costs.
[/quote]
Think of the poor gays.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Varg' date='05 November 2009 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1257457573' post='1996744']
Think of the poor gays.
[/quote]
There wouldn't be any.

[Varg]

How so?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Varg' date='05 November 2009 - 04:08 PM' timestamp='1257458907' post='1996755']
How so?
[/quote]
It's only an issue because of our fallen nature. Unnatural lust.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Varg' date='05 November 2009 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1257453231' post='1996714']
Buddhist society has gone 2553 without collapsing. You don't NEED a god for society to last. And Pagan society didn't collapse, it was decimated by Christians.

And please don't try and tell me that being Christian somehow makes you a better person, I've heard it all before.
[/quote]
Pagan society decimated by Christians? When was any pagan society decimated by Christians? Please keep in mind that Christians are only Christians if they act like Christians.

I never said being Christian made me a better person. Since all people are made in the image of God and have the intrinsic dignity associated with that, it seems to me that there are no better persons, although there are some who make better use of grace.

Regarding Buddhism, it is a religious system at least some branches of which have belief in deities. In at least the anthropological meaning of "god," they have that. However, they too will collapse without God. In the end, only the Kingdom of Heaven will last.

Regarding society, a just and lasting society must be based on the human dignity, or else the citizens become cogs in a machine. The only type of society that fulfills the demands of human dignity is a Christian society (keep in mind, again, that we've never seen a perfect one). Buddhism has a great respect for human dignity (closer to Catholicism in that respect than most other religions), but ultimately falls short. I suspect that's why it's lasted so long.

Also worthy of note is the fact that all officially Christian societies have lasted and been strong until such time that they stop acting Christian. Show me the collapse of any traditionally Christian civilization and I can point to the beginning of its demise in its relinquishing of Christianity. Never in history, however, has following the Gospel led to the downfall of a civilization.

[OraProMe]

Ahhh Rex, I have to agree with Varg on this one. Really I think most of what you say here (including your claims that the Tridentine Mass is superior to the OF, the media should be censored and it's fine to burn heretics) find their basis in your idealized obsession with medieval Europe. You say so many naive and frankly ludicrous things, it really doesn't do your intellect justice.

I really do hope that as you get older you develop the capacity to view the world from more than one angle.

Edited November 6, 2009 by OraProMe

[Varg]

[quote name='Raphael' date='05 November 2009 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1257473407' post='1996864']
Pagan society decimated by Christians? When was any pagan society decimated by Christians? Please keep in mind that Christians are only Christians if they act like Christians.
[/quote]Pagans were living perfectly happily until Christians destroyed their places of worship and demonised their gods.

In pagan societys, women do not have to fight to be equals. They are treated so anyway. In a Christian society, women had to fight to get a privelage as simple as voting in a democratiic election. Which society would you say keeps "human dignity" more in mind?

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Varg' date='06 November 2009 - 11:48 AM' timestamp='1257526114' post='1997133']
Pagans were living perfectly happily until Christians destroyed their places of worship and demonised their gods.

In pagan societys, women do not have to fight to be equals. They are treated so anyway. In a Christian society, women had to fight to get a privelage as simple as voting in a democratiic election. Which society would you say keeps "human dignity" more in mind?
[/quote]
Why does this thread have the air of the thread on America?

Yes, pagan societies were paragons of virtue, especially in regards to human rights. Wow. Just wow. You really believe that? Women treated as equals?

[Varg]

Not in all forms of paganism, obviously. And what air of the thread on America?

[kamiller42]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=100234"]This thread[/url].

[Varg]

I know, I just don't see any connection

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Varg' date='06 November 2009 - 11:48 AM' timestamp='1257526114' post='1997133']
Pagans were living perfectly happily until Christians destroyed their places of worship and demonised their gods.

In pagan societys, women do not have to fight to be equals. They are treated so anyway. In a Christian society, women had to fight to get a privelage as simple as voting in a democratiic election. Which society would you say keeps "human dignity" more in mind?
[/quote]
In many pagan societies, women were not considered equals. In fact, they were not considered equals throughout Mediterranean Europe until Christianity came about and made significant headway. The fact that some Christians eventually failed to practice Christianity authentically doesn't make Christianity false.

As for decimating pagans, destroying places of worship and demonizing false gods isn't "decimating" pagans. Killing the pagans would be decimating pagans. Technically, killing at least 1/10th of the pagans would be decimating pagans.