Brookstone Fires Employee For Belief In Traditional Marriage

[HisChild]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 12:31 PM' timestamp='1257535892' post='1997258']
I stated it wouldn't surprise me if this was the case, not because I suspect it is, but rather, its a more common than not occurance, based on my experience, as I also stated.

Jim
[/quote]


And yet, you only mention one side of the coin. It's ALSO becoming a common occurrence that those who preach 'tolerance' only mean 'tolerance of everything with the exception of traditional Christian values'. I can't tell you how many times I've come across those who are persecuted in our own country simply for wearing a crucifix, when no word has been spoken by the Christian.

As an aside, I'm wondering, and I hope this doesn't come across as disrespectful, but I don't know you or your humor/personality... are you arguing with those who know this man for the sake of argument, or do you really believe what you post?

[StColette]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 02:31 PM' timestamp='1257535892' post='1997258']
I stated it wouldn't surprise me if this was the case, not because I suspect it is, but rather, its a more common than not occurance, based on my experience, as I also stated.

Jim
[/quote]

Yes, but even after members here attested to his good character and have said he would not react in such a way, you dismissed what they said and called them biased.

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='06 November 2009 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1257524645' post='1997121']
People here have testified he is an FUS grad,and he is vouched for by fellow phatmassers, so your remark is uncalled for.
[/quote]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 11:26 AM' timestamp='1257524781' post='1997123']
So?
We're only getting one side of the story, and from people with bias.
[/quote]

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 01:56 PM' timestamp='1257533786' post='1997224']
A boycott hurts business. If it hurts the business it can also hurt the people who work there, who have nothing to do with this issue.

Jim
[/quote]


So it's immoral to not support a business? That's dumb. I probably shouldnt joke, but are your shopping lists developed on a rotating schedule of brands and stores to shop from?

Edited November 6, 2009 by Sirklawd

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1257535588' post='1997253']
The right of workers to strike, is for their benefit against unjust wages or conditions.

The Church also teaches that workers have an obligation to be fair in what they demand from their employer.

It wouldn't be fair for employees to go on strike against their employer, because they're not getting free trips to Disney World every year.


Jim
[/quote]
Your Disney World analogy is, well, not analogous.

My point was that the need of a business to stay open is not absolute. Doing something that causes economic harm to a business with the intention of disciplining the business for a moral injustice, whether it is low wages or discrimination (as this case is), is a legitimate and Church-approved method. No one is demanding anything unreasonable like free trips to Disney World. We are simply demanding that the business change its discriminatory policies and offer a public apology.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='06 November 2009 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1257537512' post='1997279']
So it's immoral to not support a business? That's dumb. I probably shouldnt joke, but are your shopping lists developed on a rotating schedule of brands and stores to shop from?
[/quote]

If this is the motivation for boycotting a business, group or person, is based on wrong information, yes it can be immoral. You have to judge for yourself, why you're taking such an
action.

Jim

[Moosey]

Brookstone smells of elderberries anyway. I used to work there and the big wigs up on the top of the food chain were slave drivers and made my boss a crazy woman, which in turn caused her to verbally abuse the sales associates (moi).

[zunshynn]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 01:13 PM' timestamp='1257538414' post='1997288']
If this is the motivation for boycotting a business, group or person, is based on wrong information, yes it can be immoral. You have to judge for yourself, why you're taking such an
action.

Jim
[/quote]

If Store A and Store B sell the same thing, and Store A is alleged to have immoral business practices, and Store B has none to the best of my knowledge, it would be wrong to support Store A over Store B. The right thing to do, of course, would be to let Store A know why I am not supporting them anymore so they can fix it, but there would be absolutely nothing wrong with refraining from supporting Store A until the issue is resolved or cleared up.

Edited November 6, 2009 by zunshynn

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Raphael' date='06 November 2009 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1257538318' post='1997287']
Your Disney World analogy is, well, not analogous.

My point was that the need of a business to stay open is not absolute. Doing something that causes economic harm to a business with the intention of disciplining the business for a moral injustice, whether it is low wages or discrimination (as this case is), is a legitimate and Church-approved method. No one is demanding anything unreasonable like free trips to Disney World. We are simply demanding that the business change its discriminatory policies and offer a public apology.
[/quote]


The issue is whether you're action is legitimate or not.

If you're going on strike against a business who discriminates, or pays wages that are not fair, it is legitimate.

If you're going on strike for unreasonable charges against the business, it is not.

Another example, the business you work for, is bought out by a Muslim. You refuse to work for a Muslim, and organize a strike against the business.
This would not be legitimate.




Jim

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='06 November 2009 - 04:18 PM' timestamp='1257538686' post='1997292']
If Store A and Store B sell the same thing, and Store A is alleged to have immoral business practices, and Store B has none to the best of my knowledge, it would be wrong to support Store A over Store B. The right thing to do, of course, would be to let Store A know why I am not supporting them anymore, but there would be absolutely nothing wrong with refraining from supporting Store A until the issue is resolved or cleared up.
[/quote]


If it is alleged, but then proven to be false, you're culpable for the damage done to the people who were harmed by your actions.

Your responsibility is to learn the truth, before you act.


Merely getting one side of a story on an internet website, isn't enough.

And remember, you must apply the same principles to others.

Jim

Edited November 6, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1257538879' post='1997295']
If it is alleged, but then proven to be false, you're culpable for the damage done to the people who were harmed by your actions.

Your responsibility is to learn the truth, before you act.


Merely getting one side of a story on an internet website, isn't enough.

Jim
[/quote]
Not if you acted with good intentions.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='06 November 2009 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1257539008' post='1997298']
Not if you acted with good intentions.
[/quote]


Good intentions don't excuse you if you chose not to find the truth beforehand.

Who was it that said, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?"

Jim

Edited November 6, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[zunshynn]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1257538879' post='1997295']
If it is alleged, but then proven to be false, you're culpable for the damage done to the people who were harmed by your actions.

Your responsibility is to learn the truth, before you act.


Merely getting one side of a story on an internet website, isn't enough.

Jim
[/quote]

I never said I wouldn't find out for sure. But I'm not going to wait until its proven to stop spending money there. If it was proved true, but I kept shopping there because I thought, well, gee, maybe it's just a rumor, than I would be culpable for the damage done by continuing to support a business with immoral business practices. That is definitely sufficient reason to start shopping elsewhere.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
moving to the debate table...

[Varg]

Fired for saying "I disagree with that"? It's a bit much...But he probably bent the story in his favour.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Varg' date='06 November 2009 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1257540490' post='1997313']
Fired for saying "I disagree with that"? It's a bit much...But he probably bent the story in his favour.
[/quote]
Sorry, what basis do you have to assume that he "probably" bent the story in his favor?

Now, I know the man personally, so I have a good basis for saying he didn't, but the only reason you could have to assume what you assume is a bias, some sort of pre-existing reason to believe that a person like him would bend the truth. You know nothing about him aside from this story, so what is it that makes you assume?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1257538702' post='1997293']
The issue is whether you're action is legitimate or not.

If you're going on strike against a business who discriminates, or pays wages that are not fair, it is legitimate.

If you're going on strike for unreasonable charges against the business, it is not.
[/quote]

Then you agree with me, good.

My best judgment is that the charges are reasonable to believe because I know the man in question and trust him.

Therefore, in line with what the Magisterium of the Catholic Church lays out as moral principles for me to follow in these circumstances, I can only judge that boycotting the business is a just thing to do.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Raphael' date='06 November 2009 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1257540983' post='1997324']
Then you agree with me, good.

My best judgment is that the charges are reasonable to believe because I know the man in question and trust him.

Therefore, in line with what the Magisterium of the Catholic Church lays out as moral principles for me to follow in these circumstances, I can only judge that boycotting the business is a just thing to do.
[/quote]


Good, then follow your conscience.



Jim

[Nihil Obstat]

Unfortunately I can't join the boycott, since they don't exist in my neck of the woods.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 November 2009 - 07:07 PM' timestamp='1257552478' post='1997393']
Unfortunately I can't join the boycott, since they don't exist in my neck of the woods.
[/quote]
You can join for moral support. I've never seen one here, either.

[CatherineM]

I just bought some Brookstone ships curves. I bought them on Ebay though, so I can't really return them. First Brookstone item I've ever owned.