Religious Freedom

[Saint Therese]

The real question is not freedom of religion but freedom of conscience.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='16 November 2009 - 10:38 AM' timestamp='1258389484' post='2003712']
The real question is not freedom of religion but freedom of conscience.
[/quote]
Legally, the U.S. Constitution only grants freedom of religion. Conscience may fall under freedom of speech, assuming you're voicing you opinion.

Edited November 16, 2009 by fidei defensor

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='apparently' date='16 November 2009 - 07:10 AM' timestamp='1258384240' post='2003642']
does this fact invalidate anything?
[/quote]

it means a bunch of guys from hundreds of years ago have no right to force people to accept religion, and especially people who came along way later with political bargaining power on the mind.

[add]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='16 November 2009 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1258394120' post='2003753']
it means a bunch of guys from hundreds of years ago have no right to force people to accept religion, and especially people who came along way later with political bargaining power on the mind.
[/quote]


i hate them guys

[add]

[quote name='Era Might' date='15 November 2009 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1258258290' post='2003066']
Dude, it's not even Thanksgiving yet.
[/quote]
the not Christmas "Holiday" season started in the big department stores like a month ago, where you been?

Edited November 17, 2009 by apparently

[Nihil Obstat]

I just can't wait for the 24/7 lite rock Christmas music to start playing at my work.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='15 November 2009 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1258342271' post='2003515']
you do realize that was only added in 1954, and was NOT in the original constitution?
[/quote]

Did you perhaps mean the Pledge of Allegiance? The prepositional phrase "under God" is mentioned neither in the original Constitution nor in any of its amendments.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='17 November 2009 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1258497582' post='2004454']
Did you perhaps mean the Pledge of Allegiance? The prepositional phrase "under God" is mentioned neither in the original Constitution nor in any of its amendments.
[/quote]

yes, thats correct, thanks.

further proves that the phrase isnt significant in this discussion.

[add]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='17 November 2009 - 09:43 PM' timestamp='1258508589' post='2004606']
yes, thats correct, thanks.

further proves that the phrase isnt significant in this discussion.
[/quote]

A pledge that is recited every day has relevancy. The US is not a Godless society, churchesabound throughout the land.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='apparently' date='18 November 2009 - 04:53 AM' timestamp='1258541585' post='2004744']
A pledge that is recited every day has relevancy. The US is not a Godless society, churchesabound throughout the land.
[/quote]
Yes, private Churches where attendance is optional. We have freedom of religion or lack thereof in this country. Get over it.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='15 November 2009 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1258342271' post='2003515']
you do realize that was only added in 1954, and was NOT in the original constitution?
[/quote]
You do realize that some states (the American equivalent of a province ) have had official religions?

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='17 November 2009 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1258508589' post='2004606']
yes, thats correct, thanks.

further proves that the phrase isnt significant in this discussion.
[/quote]
Further proves that you are in fact a Canadien (look I went out of my way to capitalize it)

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='18 November 2009 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1258566304' post='2004870']
You do realize that some states (the American equivalent of a province ) have had official religions?
[/quote]
Before the Constitution, maybe.

[add]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='18 November 2009 - 01:41 PM' timestamp='1258566075' post='2004868']
Yes, private Churches where attendance is optional. We have freedom of religion or lack thereof in this country. Get over it.
[/quote]

get over what

[elizabeth09]

I can not beleive that Thanksgiving is next Thursday already.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='18 November 2009 - 09:45 AM' timestamp='1258566304' post='2004870']
You do realize that some states (the American equivalent of a province ) have had official religions?


Further proves that you are in fact a Canadien (look I went out of my way to capitalize it)
[/quote]

yup, states are the smaller equivalent of provinces. even BC is larger than Texas.

but, but, you spelt it wrong!!

[little_miss_late]

I guess there is no real debate happening here, just people yelling over each other's heads?

Apparently:

Do you think there is no case where in the interest of preserving religious freedom, the state (which is not affiliated with any particular religious group) is correct to limit some people's public religious expressions?


I think the happy holidays stuff is a lot of ado about nothing, personally. There are meaningful debates to be had about religious expression and religious freedom, but I can't take the "They took Christmas out of the big box" thing seriously. It doesn't mean anything. If all the big department stores put up Merry Christmas signs, would my non-Catholic friends stop making off color priest jokes and asking why the Vatican doesn't sell all of their art? Would there be no more hungry and homeless sleeping in my public library? And more importantly-- these stores are trying to SELL YOU STUFF. They don't care about souls. Why is it so important to you that they give lip service to your holy days?

My perspective on this is that of a former waitress and customer service employee in an area that is NOT predominantly Christian. To my regular customers, if I knew what they celebrated, I would say something personal to them. To everyone else I said "Happy Holidays" or something similar and I never had a Jew snarl back at me "That's HAPPY CHANUKAH!" but I had some people rip me a new one for not saying Merry Christmas. Whereas if they had just cheerfully said, Merry Christmas I would have been happy to wish them a Merry Christmas in return.

Edited November 19, 2009 by little_miss_late

[add]

[quote name='little_miss_late' date='18 November 2009 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1258598797' post='2005314']
I guess there is no real debate happening here, just people yelling over each other's heads?
[color="#0000ff"][b]okay[/b][/color]
Apparently:

Do you think there is no case where in the interest of preserving religious freedom, the state (which is not affiliated with any particular religious group) is correct to limit some people's public religious expressions?
[color="#0000ff"][b]no[/b][/color]

I think the happy holidays stuff is a lot of ado about nothing, personally. [color="#0000ff"][b](your loss)[/b][/color] There are meaningful debates to be had about religious expression and religious freedom, but I can't take the "They took Christmas out of the big box" thing seriously. It doesn't mean anything. If all the big department stores put up Merry Christmas signs, would my non-Catholic friends stop making off color priest jokes and asking why the Vatican doesn't sell all of their art? Would there be no more hungry and homeless sleeping in my public library? And more importantly-- these stores are trying to SELL YOU STUFF. They don't care about souls. Why is it so important to you that they give lip service to your holy days?
[color="#0000ff"][b]exactly[/b][/color]
My perspective on this is that of a former waitress and customer service employee in an area that is NOT predominantly Christian. To my regular customers, if I knew what they celebrated, I would say something personal to them. To everyone else I said "Happy Holidays" or something similar and I never had a Jew snarl back at me "That's HAPPY CHANUKAH!" but I had some people rip me a new one for not saying Merry Christmas. Whereas if they had just cheerfully said, Merry Christmas I would have been happy to wish them a Merry Christmas in return.
[color="#0000ff"][b]i would not wish a stranger merry Christmas either[/b][/color]
[/quote]

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='apparently' date='18 November 2009 - 06:53 AM' timestamp='1258541585' post='2004744']
... The US is not a Godless society ...
[/quote]

Nor is it a theocracy.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='18 November 2009 - 01:41 PM' timestamp='1258566075' post='2004868']
Yes, private Churches where attendance is optional. We have freedom of religion or lack thereof in this country. Get over it.
[/quote]

Are you saying that freedom of religion [b]doesn't[/b] mean you are only free to practice the faith-expression of the majority?

Edited November 19, 2009 by Lounge Daddy

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='18 November 2009 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1258605351' post='2005451']
Are you saying that freedom of religion [b]doesn't[/b] mean you are only free to practice the faith-expression of the majority?
[/quote]
I found it shocking, too. Apparently it also means you don't have to follow the "trend" of atheism, either.