what the heavens! Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 Okay, I have a question. Why did the Pope tell AIDS-stricken Africa that only Catholicism can prevent AIDS? [quote]HIV/Aids was, he argued, "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem". The solution lay, he said, in a "spiritual and human awakening" and "friendship for those who suffer"[/quote] and [quote]"The traditional teaching of the church has proven to be the only failsafe way to prevent the spread of HIV/Aids."[/quote] [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4081276.stm"]The Pope wants Africans to die? [/url] [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7947460.stm"]more genocide[/url] Why have so many Catholic priests in South and Central America told their parishioners that condoms actually *cause* AIDS? Is there something inherent to Catholic belief that poor, uneducated people should die of easily prevented diseases? Which Christian sect is it that says poor people are evil, again? I'm just wondering how Catholics feel about the Pope advocating genocide for poor Africans. Because telling poor, uneducated people that condoms can make AIDS worse, is 100% advocating genocide.
Nihil Obstat Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 Many scientists have actually vindicated the Holy Father on this subject. Many have agreed that throwing condoms at the problem made it worse.
Archaeology cat Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 To add to what Nihil said, [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5987155.ece"]here's an article[/url] showing that an expert on AIDS at Harvard says the Pope is correct that condoms are not the solution. We also teach that contraception is, in itself, sinful. You can't do a sinful act in order to prevent something bad happening (and as it turns out, it doesn't always prevent that thing from happening).
what the heavens! Posted December 10, 2009 Author Posted December 10, 2009 Waaaaaaaaaht? You can't be serious. Who are these scientists? One thing asides from condom use that actually does reduce HIV infection rates is being circumsized. AIDS rates are much lower in Muslim Africa, where the men are circumsized, even when condom use has been negligent. Wouldn't that mean Islam (which dictates circumcision for men) actually protects you from AIDS? How does being Catholic stop you from getting AIDS? There are really two ways to prevent AIDS: first abstinence or strict monogamy, then safe sex with condoms. People sin and can't be expected to stop sinning completely because of what religion they belong to. If a catholic slips up and has unprotected sex with a stranger, and the stranger has AIDS, does being Catholic protect the person from infection?
what the heavens! Posted December 10, 2009 Author Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Archaeology cat' date='10 December 2009 - 01:22 PM' timestamp='1260469365' post='2017607'] To add to what Nihil said, [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5987155.ece"]here's an article[/url] showing that an expert on AIDS at Harvard says the Pope is correct that condoms are not the solution. We also teach that contraception is, in itself, sinful. You can't do a sinful act in order to prevent something bad happening (and as it turns out, it doesn't always prevent that thing from happening). [/quote] And the Chief of the U.N. AIDS prevention unit called the report absurd and ridiculous. Along with everyone else in the world.
rkwright Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='what the heavens!' date='10 December 2009 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1260469549' post='2017612'] Waaaaaaaaaht? You can't be serious. Who are these scientists? One thing asides from condom use that actually does reduce HIV infection rates is being circumsized. AIDS rates are much lower in Muslim Africa, where the men are circumsized, even when condom use has been negligent. Wouldn't that mean Islam (which dictates circumcision for men) actually protects you from AIDS? How does being Catholic stop you from getting AIDS? There are really two ways to prevent AIDS: first abstinence or strict monogamy, then safe sex with condoms. People sin and can't be expected to stop sinning completely because of what religion they belong to. If a catholic slips up and has unprotected sex with a stranger, and the stranger has AIDS, does being Catholic protect the person from infection? [/quote] Being Catholic prevents AIDS because being Catholic means you don't have sex outside of marriage. People can and should be expected to stop sinning - and especially on the subject of sex outside of marriage - c'mon people its not that hard.
Archaeology cat Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 Does being Catholic protect from infection? No. Do condoms always protect from infection? No. Does circumcision always protect the person from infection? No. Yes, people are going to sin, but that doesn't mean they should be enabled to do so. Two wrongs cannot make a right. This is one reason the Church teaches that people should practice chastity by abstaining from sex outside of marriage, and being faithful to one's spouse within marriage. It is not an impossible expectation, especially if people are educated about why these things are taught.
bhrhrahraa Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' date='10 December 2009 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1260469735' post='2017615'] Being Catholic prevents AIDS because being Catholic means you don't have sex outside of marriage. People can and should be expected to stop sinning - and especially on the subject of sex outside of marriage - c'mon people its not that hard. [/quote] Are you referring to practicing, devout Catholics or Catholic by name?
rkwright Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='10 December 2009 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1260469886' post='2017618'] Are you referring to practicing, devout Catholics or Catholic by name? [/quote] Sadly, there really shouldn't be a difference should there? If you're a Catholic, then you should be a practicing Catholic. Catholicism is not here to serve the whims of the sinner, rather to bring the sinner to God. How can it bring the sinner to God when it says contraception is contrary to God's will, but heres some contraception just in case. It makes no sense.
Apotheoun Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='what the heavens!' date='10 December 2009 - 11:25 AM' timestamp='1260469549' post='2017612'] Waaaaaaaaaht? You can't be serious. Who are these scientists? One thing asides from condom use that actually does reduce HIV infection rates is being circumsized. AIDS rates are much lower in Muslim Africa, where the men are circumsized, even when condom use has been negligent. Wouldn't that mean Islam (which dictates circumcision for men) actually protects you from AIDS? How does being Catholic stop you from getting AIDS? There are really two ways to prevent AIDS: first abstinence or strict monogamy, then safe sex with condoms. People sin and can't be expected to stop sinning completely because of what religion they belong to. If a catholic slips up and has unprotected sex with a stranger, and the stranger has AIDS, does being Catholic protect the person from infection? [/quote] The only thing that really prevents the spread of HIV is chastity. Circumcized men, and men who wear condoms, can still contract the disease and spread it.
bhrhrahraa Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='rkwright' date='10 December 2009 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1260470001' post='2017620'] Sadly, there really shouldn't be a difference should there? If you're a Catholic, then you should be a practicing Catholic. Catholicism is not here to serve the whims of the sinner, rather to bring the sinner to God. How can it bring the sinner to God when it says contraception is contrary to God's will, but heres some contraception just in case. It makes no sense. [/quote] Sadly, there is a difference. There are so many Catholics/Christians who fornicate, go to church and do everything wrong yet claim to be Catholics. I admit, this exists in every religion but this is where the line is also drawn. I have yet to meet a practicing Christian who follows the Book, doesn't fornicate and is a true Christian. I don't mean online, in the real world. Edited December 10, 2009 by bhrhrahraa
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 "The traditional teaching of the church has proven to be the only failsafe way to prevent the spread of HIV/Aids."-Pope Benedict XVI When he said this he was not reffering to the Catholic faith but its "Traditional teaching and failsafe way" -i.e ABSTINENCE- He was talking about abstinence. Your quotes were taken out of context and were misrepresented.
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='10 December 2009 - 01:45 PM' timestamp='1260470750' post='2017629'] Sadly, there is a difference. There are so many Catholics/Christians who fornicate, go to church and do everything wrong yet claim to be Catholics. I admit, this exists in every religion but this is where the line is also drawn. [b]I have yet to meet a practicing Christian who follows the Book, doesn't fornicate and is a true Christian. I don't mean online, in the real world.[/b] [/quote] You must not ever go to a Catholic Church and meet with the community that goes to Mass daily.
Socrates Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 If everyone followed the Church's moral teachings regarding chastity, there would be very few deaths from AIDS or other such stds. Providing condoms has done very little to alleviate the scourge of AIDs. If everyone followed the Pope's (and the Church's) teachings regarding sexual morality, there would be no AIDS pandemic, and countless lives would be saved. Saying "the Pope Supports Genocide" (the deliberate killing of a people) is an outrageous lie and slander. If Islam opposes chastity, and instead supports contraceptive sex and lots of sleeping around (which I was previously unaware that it did), I want nothing to do with such a religion.
Socrates Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='10 December 2009 - 01:45 PM' timestamp='1260470750' post='2017629'] Sadly, there is a difference. There are so many Catholics/Christians who fornicate, go to church and do everything wrong yet claim to be Catholics. I admit, this exists in every religion but this is where the line is also drawn. I have yet to meet a practicing Christian who follows the Book, doesn't fornicate and is a true Christian. I don't mean online, in the real world. [/quote] How unfortunate for you. I do know practicing Christians/Catholics who don't fornicate. Those who do are not truly practicing their Faith. The fact that there are Christians who don't follow what their Faith teaches does not prove such teachings false.
bhrhrahraa Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='10 December 2009 - 01:56 PM' timestamp='1260471365' post='2017638'] You must not ever go to a Catholic Church and meet with the community that goes to Mass daily. [/quote] Actually, I have 2 Churches only a few feet from my house. One is right in front of me and the other is to the left side. I barely see anyone go in or out except on Sundays. And I'm very well aware that people who are into Catholicism or whatever exist, just that I have never met one face to face.
Nihil Obstat Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='10 December 2009 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1260471667' post='2017647'] And I'm very well aware that people who are into Catholicism or whatever exist, just that I have never met one face to face. [/quote] I don't know all that many, and I'm not exactly uninvolved with my Faith. On the other hand, I know a heck of a lot of people about whom I could not say "that person does not practice our faith the way they should", simple because I don't know them well enough.
Varg Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Socrates' date='10 December 2009 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1260471513' post='2017642'] If everyone followed the Church's moral teachings regarding chastity, there would be very few deaths from AIDS or other such stds. Providing condoms has done very little to alleviate the scourge of AIDs. [/quote] Prove it.
Socrates Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Varg' date='10 December 2009 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1260471776' post='2017651'] Prove it. [/quote] Because most AIDS is spread by sexual promiscuity. No sexual promiscuity = much less AIDS. It's not rocket science.
bhrhrahraa Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 December 2009 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1260471761' post='2017650'] I don't know all that many, and I'm not exactly uninvolved with my Faith. On the other hand, I know a heck of a lot of people about whom I could not say "that person does not practice our faith the way they should", simple because I don't know them well enough. [/quote] But you know, there are always false followers... those who observe every part of their faith out of fear/family pressure and then do the exact opposite in secrecy. But, of course, this is not bound to just one faith. Well, I hope to meet a devout Catholic/Christian in real life soon[i] Insha-Allah {If God Wills}.[/i]
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